1N range
#1
Posted 2013-June-03, 20:22
My question is,
a. is it illegal to have a 11-15 range 1N opening?
b. is it legal (and ethical) to put our range as 13-15 on convention card, but alert that we might open light in third seat?
Thankd for the help in advance.
#2
Posted 2013-June-03, 20:39
#3
Posted 2013-June-04, 00:27
#7 under disallowed says: "CONVENTIONAL RESPONSES, REBIDS AND A CONVENTIONAL DEFENSE TO AN OPPONENT’S CONVENTIONAL DEFENSE after natural notrump opening bids or overcalls with a lower limit of fewer than 10 HCP or with a range of greater than 5 HCP (including those that have two non-consecutive ranges) and weak two-bids which by partnership agreement are not within a range of 7 HCP and do not show at least five cards in the suit".
IOW, you can playing any range you like for a natural 1NT opening, but you cannot agree conventional responses if it has a lower limit of less then 10 HCP* or a range greater than 5 HCP. The OP's opponent was mistaken, and the director was entirely too credulous. Next time, ask him to show you the regulation in writing.
Specifically, the answers to the two questions asked are, in the ACBL, 1) no, an 11-15 range for 1NT is not illegal and you are permitted conventional responses to it, and 2) there are two lines on the convention card for 1NT range. I would write 13-15 (1st, 2nd, 4th seat) on one line and 11-15 (3rd seat) on the other. I suppose you could leave out the seat information on the first line - and btw, the inclusion of "4th seat" there is an assumption - if your range in 4th seat is not 13-15, include what it is on the card. Announce 11-15 for third (and fourth if appropriate) seat openings and 13-15 otherwise.
* In practice, if you agree a lower limit of 10 points, but you one day pick up a hand with a very good nine points and decide to upgrade it to 10, the director will take the bid as proof that you have an agreement to open on nine HCP, and no amount of arguing will change his mind. So don't do it.
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#4
Posted 2013-June-04, 01:26
wank, on 2013-June-03, 20:39, said:
I had someone here in England say something like this the other day; that regulation changed more than 20 years ago.
London UK
#5
Posted 2013-June-04, 09:32
But either way, 11-15 is acceptable.
#6
Posted 2013-June-04, 11:04
[we had this exact question asked during a TD meeting, and that way of explaining the answer; so I would say at least in the ACBL, 11-15 is a 5-HCP range.]
#7
Posted 2013-June-04, 12:18
mycroft, on 2013-June-04, 11:04, said:
Not in any way that makes sense to a mathematician, either, since HCP are discrete.
#8
Posted 2013-June-04, 13:04
campboy, on 2013-June-04, 12:18, said:
Mine aren't; they're always gossiping .
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#9
Posted 2013-June-04, 13:32
campboy, on 2013-June-04, 12:18, said:
But I suspect you are discrete mathematician - even in the sense blackshoe uses.
"Robin Barker is a mathematician. ... All highly skilled in their respective fields and clearly accomplished bridge players."
#10
Posted 2013-June-04, 13:51
mycroft, on 2013-June-04, 11:04, said:
[we had this exact question asked during a TD meeting, and that way of explaining the answer; so I would say at least in the ACBL, 11-15 is a 5-HCP range.]
I agree that 11-15 is a 5-HCP range; the question is whether "11-13 OR 16-17" is a 5-point range (11,12,13,16,17) or a 7-point range (11 to 17 inclusive). My interpretation is the latter; defenses to a NT are likely to need to handle the weakest and strongest hands that could open 1NT, whether or not all balanced hands in between are also systemic 1NT openings.
And just to clarify, this refers to a SPLIT range, not a variable range. The latter is a different range based on some combination of position and vulnerability; the former is a non-contiguous set(*) of ranges, where any balanced hand falling into any of the ranges will normally be opened 1NT.
(*) In my experience, always a pair of ranges. A 3-way split like 8-10 or 13-15 or 18-19 is theoretically possible, but I can't imagine how to build a system around it, given the ACBL proscription of conventional responses and continuations.
#11
Posted 2013-June-04, 16:43
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#12
Posted 2013-June-04, 18:27
#13
Posted 2013-June-04, 19:04
aguahombre, on 2013-June-04, 18:27, said:
From the ABL GCC, allowed responses and rebids:
10. ALL CALLS AFTER A NATURAL NOTRUMP opening bid or direct overcall, EXCEPT for natural notrump opening bids or overcalls with a lower limit of fewer than 10 HCP or with a range of greater than 5 HCP (including those that have two non-consecutive ranges) ...
There as an ambiguity about the meaning of "range" in that context; I like my interpretation but a good lawyer could probably tear me to shreds
#14
Posted 2013-June-04, 19:22
#15
Posted 2013-June-04, 19:22
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#16
Posted 2013-June-04, 20:12