[Cave_Draco]

In his beginner's guide, Ben said

"(1S)-1NT show 15-17, 15-18, or 16-18 depending upon your style. You need the good values, because your partner's hand is unknown. However,

(1S)-P-(P)-1NT is typically 11-13, 10-14, 12-14, something like that (you have to agree with your partner what your balancing NT range will be). But here, you know your partner has some hcp, so you bid NT with less. This allows you to bid with hands where DBL or overcall don't make sense."

I have always played them the other way round! It still seems more logical, ;D.

In the first case (1S)-1NT says I have a 1NT opener (12-14), with a Spade guard. As it does in the sequence (p)-p-(1S)-1NT, partner knows the limit of competition and can assess their hand appropriately.
It happened yesterday, I held AT5-K84-AT9-J982, a perfect Weak NT, we played in a Heart partial. If I don't play a Weak NT, I have no bid... Say opener's partner raises to 2S & partner balances? What is my bid?

In the second case, am I really going to announce that I have balanced rubbish sat under an, almost, unlimited opener? Need a finesse? Guess what! Nah!
With a Weak NT in balancing position, double is just fine, . In fact, it's ideal!

But, partner plays them the "wrong" way round... I guess I have to adapt, lol.

P.S. Ben played that one too, & defeated 2SX... WD Ben.

[the hog]

I have always played them the other way round! It still seems more logical, .

In the first case (1S)-1NT says I have a 1NT opener (12-14), with a Spade guard. As it does in the sequence (p)-p-(1S)-1NT, partner knows the limit of competition and can assess their hand appropriately.
It happened yesterday, I held AT5-K84-AT9-J982, a perfect Weak NT, we played in a Heart partial. If I don't play a Weak NT, I have no bid... Say opener's partner raises to 2S & partner balances? What is my bid?

(1S) 1NT on 12-14 balanced when opener has shown 12+ and his partner is unlimited is putting yourself in a situation where you are very likely to go for a telephone number. Look at the hand you give; you know the opps are almost certainly not making a slam, but YOU potentially have only 2 tricks. You have no source of tricks in your hand. With your given hand if partner balances with a X you bid a scrambling 2NT - see Ben's post on this. If partner balances with 3H, I would give serious thoughts to bidding 4. Some of these situations can be avoided by using obar bids - again see an Inquiry post on this.

I don't mind 1NT raptor or 1NT as a weak t/o overcall, but not a balanced 12-14. This is handing the opps a licence to X you, even on partscore hands.

A strong NT in the balancing seat is ok I suppose if you want. I prefer 11-15 as it makes the bidding a lot easier.

[Cave_Draco]

Both Ben & I picked extreme cases, .

Ben's was (1S)-1NT, where I agree pass, on the hand I showed, is fine.
I looked at (p)-p-(1S)-1NT, a different situation, ;D.

In the balancing seat... What does 1NT say that double doesn't? Pick a suit, or NT or penalties, P!

In the direct seat, X has a specific meaning. A Strong NT hand can afford a few liberties, whereas a Weak NT just has to shut up!

Suppose opps buy the contract, seems like a partial anyway: playing a Weak NT in direct tells opps "Finesse at your peril", Weak NT in balancing says "Hello, finesse me".

Psychologically, I know which attitude I prefer.

[the hog]

In the first case (1S)-1NT says I have a 1NT opener (12-14), with a Spade guard. As it does in the sequence (p)-p-(1S)-1NT, partner knows the limit of competition and can assess their hand appropriately.

This clearly infers you are playing (1S) 1NT and (P) P (1S) 1NT the same way.
Anyway I would hit 1NT with any balanced 8+ count here.

Re a balancing 1NT. The bid hardly says 'finesse me". Pd is quite able to have some points and secondly declarer has to get to dummy to finesse me. If you read my post you will note that I have said a 15-18 range is playable. I prefer the lesser range to aid in constructive bidding.

[inquiry]

The hand our favorite dragon was referring to was:

MP, EW vul

Bidding at virtually all tables...

P-(1S)- to Cave_Draco

AT5-K84-AT9-J982 (his)

J4-AT973-62-KQ53 (his partner)

At his table, he overcalled 1NT and his partner responded 2H. A nice, safe little contract, that makes an overtrick.

At my table, my partner passed his 12 flat and RHO raised to 2S. At favorable vul, and as a passed hand, you just know I am not going quietly, so I double for takeout. If partner bids 3C or 2NT, ok, no problem (2NT would be scramble here since are both passed hands). If he bids 3D, I will grit my teeth and bid my wonderful heart suit at the three level. And of course, if partner has this hand (the one he actually held), pass works out even better at least this time).

2Spades x could be down two after a trump lead and one round duck of diamonds, but down one was good enough (we got off to great trump lead, but dropped on trick in clubs by ducking out diamond ace twice).

While I certainly would never argue with a dragon, I think my way of bidding these hands has more merit than the overcall of 1NT on such a weak hand. One advantage is you get to play 2Sx or 1NTx sometimes.. if you bid 1NT, when the hand is yours, you just missed the chance for a nice payday. (and of course, you may go for large numbers against a part score for them).

Ben

PS... my favorite dragon right now is TROGDOR!! See the mighty trogdor at http://www.homestarr.../trogdor.html... you will need Macromedia inc "flash player" to enjoy trogdor.

[Cave_Draco]

The sequence (p)-p-(1S)-p-(p)-1NT? Shows what?

Denies Hearts? Promises a Spade guard?

Why not just double, ;D?

[bglover]

I have always played that x of the major in balance seat guarantees 4+ or the other major in balance and that 1nt denies 4+ and promises a stopper. What do you do if you can't cover one or the other situation? Bid your suit... and if you have bad suits PASS.

There are exceptions of course (for example you may have a moose as an unpassed hand and you always have to start with a double) but I have found this works well in general.