[Phil]

---

Partner leads off with the ♥K. You play a neutral card, and he continues the Q. Trusting that partner would raise to 3♥ with a holding like KQx, you overtake and return another middle heart. Declarer follows with the J and partner ruffs with the 9.

Partner now exits with the ♣J, and declarer wins. He plays a diamond to the A and finesses the spade, and then plays the Ace dropping your King, partner following.

Declarer now plays three more trump. You have three hearts left, three diamonds and the ♣Q. What are your discards, and in what order?

[billw55]

I like trying these.

Spoiler

I figure if declarer had another diamond, he would go to dummy again to repeat the trump finesse. Therefore I put him on 6313 shape, which means he has a club loser. My first discard is the ♣Q so partner knows to keep ♣Tx.

[Phil]

billw55, on 2011-December-21, 13:12, said:

I like trying these.

Spoiler

I figure if declarer had another diamond, he would go to dummy again to repeat the trump finesse. Therefore I put him on 6313 shape, which means he has a club loser. My first discard is the ♣Q so partner knows to keep ♣Tx.

Declarer played a 3rd spade, and your partner followed. So declarer is known to have 5=3 in the majors.

Edit - Furthermore, if declarer had six spades and the presumed ♣AK, thats 10 tricks, right?

[wyman]

Additionally, burning the last entry to dummy could be bad in case he has a minor suit squeeze on partner. I wouldn't read too much into his not using dummy's last entry in this case, but it's certainly worth considering in general.

[billw55]

Phil, on 2011-December-21, 13:21, said:

Declarer played a 3rd spade, and your partner followed. So declarer is known to have 5=3 in the majors.

Edit - Furthermore, if declarer had six spades and the presumed ♣AK, thats 10 tricks, right?

hm dang .. yeah I didn't really think that through. lol

[billw55]

OK I'll try again.

Spoiler

Declarer is 5-3 in the majors. Of his five minor suit cards, four are obvious winners (♦AK ♣AK). If he has a third club, then partner holds ♦Qxx and ♣Tx. He needs to know that the clubs are more important when the time comes to bear down to four cards. Meanwhile I must guard diamonds with ♦Jxx in case declarer has three.

So, I still pitch the ♣Q first, and only hearts thereafter. Interesting that the conclusion is the same.

[Flameous]

Agree with Bills (second) analysis.

Only other situation we could/should worry about is declarer with AQJxx Jxx Qxx Ax
Here declarer is of course cold by playing diamonds from the top but if we had the way to suggest finessing...
I don't really see anything cunning enough here to convince declarer though, besides it wouldn't be B/I problem

[Phil]

WD Bill. What I'm hoping players will take from this is that its very easy to pitch hearts and save the discard in the minor until the last trump. However, partner doesn't know if you started with Qxx and Jx. You know partner needs to keep clubs, so get rid of them ASAP.

[Mbodell]

Yeah, this is easy for me to see when presented as a problem hand, but at the table I'm sure I'd often just discard hearts.

[Antrax]

So, in situations like these, pitching one of the "important" suits tells partner he can freely pitch in the other?

[Phil]

Yes. I think an intelligent partner can also work out when you don't pitch either clubs or diamonds, that you cannot until the end.

[BunnyGo]

It's more than that Antrax, pitching the important suit *forces* partner to pitch the other. If he knows that you are definitely not guarding clubs, then he just has to hope you are guarding diamonds.

[Mbodell]

I suppose the other way to signal this, depending on how in sync you are with your partner, is that discarding the hearts from the top says you have diamonds more controlled and discarding hearts from the bottom says you have clubs more controlled. This might be important on a hand where you need to keep all your minor cards but still tell partner what to keep/discard (maybe you have a stiff club honor that you need to keep, but partner has to keep his guarded honor).

[Phil]

Mbodell, on 2011-December-22, 16:43, said:

I suppose the other way to signal this, depending on how in sync you are with your partner, is that discarding the hearts from the top says you have diamonds more controlled and discarding hearts from the bottom says you have clubs more controlled. This might be important on a hand where you need to keep all your minor cards but still tell partner what to keep/discard (maybe you have a stiff club honor that you need to keep, but partner has to keep his guarded honor).

Good point. I would take heart cards as suit preference. In the original case, I think its clearer to pitch clubs though.

[flametree]

Would it have been a good idea to put the Queen of clubs on partner's jack on the first round of the suit?

[Antrax]

BunnyGo, on 2011-December-22, 10:48, said:

It's more than that Antrax, pitching the important suit *forces* partner to pitch the other. If he knows that you are definitely not guarding clubs, then he just has to hope you are guarding diamonds.

It's probably silly, but can't the Q discard be taken as showing the J (not on this layout, where the J was played, of course, but on the principle of the thing?)

[Phil]

flametree, on 2011-December-22, 18:02, said:

Would it have been a good idea to put the Queen of clubs on partner's jack on the first round of the suit?

It probably doesn't hurt, but if partner is counting declarer's tricks he can see five spades, two diamonds and two clubs. If declarer has the ♦J or the ♣Q, thats 10, so he needs to assume we have both cards.