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1N - (4H) - 5H

#1 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-September-07, 17:32

is?

Thanks
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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-September-07, 18:30

Pick from the 3 suits?
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#3 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2011-September-07, 18:46

forcing.
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#4 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2011-September-07, 19:08

Spades and a minor?
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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#5 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2011-September-07, 21:11

Transfer?

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#6 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-September-07, 22:02

No no, it is Superman !
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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#7 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-September-08, 02:12

Yamnats
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#8 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-September-08, 02:37

The same as over an opening 4♥. That is, spades and a minor, slam-invitational, but we can stop in 5♠.

To show a slam try with just spades, you have two routes:
- A direct 5♠
- 4NT (initially minors) followed by 5♠.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2011-September-08, 10:37

... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#9 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2011-September-08, 16:53

5H is a bad bid. Can't be right.
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#10 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-September-08, 17:26

Yes, it is probably the right idea to declare that a bid which you haven't seen or used before must be a bad bid. It saves a lot of effort trying to decide what the best use of the bid might be.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#11 User is offline   affe82 

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Posted 2011-September-08, 17:36

Maybe a bad idea but I would think:
4n- initial minors or spade slamtry with heart q.(follow up 5h void and one suiter in spades)
5s- slamtry no heart q
5hearts- void and a 2suiter in minors.
5n-pick a slam-2places
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#12 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-September-08, 20:43

I had KTxxx Ax A AK9xx. No idea if pard was on the same wavelength when he bid 5N.

Your call now??
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#13 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2011-September-08, 21:45

ok, so I feel like we're in uncharted waters and someone has to take a flyer, wish there was a way around that but there just isn't. There's no way a non-world class partnership has these kinds of bids defined. I'm bidding 6H with the intention of playing 7 of a black suit.

Actually im just bidding 7C.
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#14 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2011-September-08, 21:50

I would also force to 7.
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#15 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2011-September-09, 15:41

View Postgnasher, on 2011-September-08, 02:37, said:

The same as over an opening 4♥. That is, spades and a minor, slam-invitational, but we can stop in 5♠.

To show a slam try with just spades, you have two routes:
- A direct 5♠
- 4NT (initially minors) followed by 5♠.


I don't entirely agree with this. The other possible hand type you can have for a 5-heart bid is a 3-suiter slam force with a heart void. It's not the same as over a 4H opening, because when you have that hand you double 4H; however here you are forced to double 4H with random balanced values because you know you are opposite a strong NT and can't pass.
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#16 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-September-10, 02:46

View PostFrancesHinden, on 2011-September-09, 15:41, said:

I don't entirely agree with this. The other possible hand type you can have for a 5-heart bid is a 3-suiter slam force with a heart void. It's not the same as over a 4H opening, because when you have that hand you double 4H; however here you are forced to double 4H with random balanced values because you know you are opposite a strong NT and can't pass.

I think a direct 5NT should show the three-suiter. I don't think that's a standard agreement though.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#17 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-September-10, 02:55

is 4N clearly 2 places to play? I agree it should be but you can make a pretty reasonable case for needing a natural 4N bid.
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#18 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-September-10, 02:56

View Postgnasher, on 2011-September-08, 02:37, said:

The same as over an opening 4♥. That is, spades and a minor, slam-invitational, but we can stop in 5♠.

To show a slam try with just spades, you have two routes:
- A direct 5♠
- 4NT (initially minors) followed by 5♠.


I didnt know 4N followed by 5S shows just spades? :( How standard is that? I guess its to distinguish hands with or without a heart control?
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#19 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2011-September-10, 03:00

View PostJLOGIC, on 2011-September-10, 02:55, said:

is 4N clearly 2 places to play? I agree it should be but you can make a pretty reasonable case for needing a natural 4N bid.


I wondered that (I play more 4NT bids as natural than most) but I think you double with most 'natural' 4NT bids. That just leaves the hands with a long minor, but 4NT is a bit of a narrow target there.
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#20 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-September-10, 03:19

View PostJLOGIC, on 2011-September-10, 02:56, said:

I didnt know 4N followed by 5S shows just spades? :( How standard is that?


Probably not at all - I think I was answering the question "What's best?" rather than "What's standard?". It is, however, consistent with how "everyone" plays
1NT 4♠ 4NT pass
5♣ pass 5♥
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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