[MrAce]

1- IMP, 2♠ is not constructive, we dont play it, there had been times i bid 2♠ with 5332 hands but this is the first time i did with a 6 card fit. Opps being silent was a hint that pd has a good hand...anyway letme know how u feel about this 2♠ and what would you bid now and why ? (Note preemptive 3♠ bid was not available )

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Do you think responder is in forcing pass situation over 4 NT ? And what should he bid now ?

[cherdano]

I wouldn't have bid 2♠, there is no forcing pass, and I would probably bid 5♠ now - but it really depends on the opponent.

[jillybean]

I would bid 4♠ first round.

[jmcw]

FP are difficult for many partnerships, much will depend on the agreements they have established. Without discussion you are guessing whether partner will assume FP or not. I expect just about all advanced partners would assume this be be a FP situation. Both opponents have previously passed and your side has freely bid to game, if thats not a FP then I dont know what is.

2♠ is horrible!, 4♠ should be unanimous in this forum.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 2S may work, or not, I would bid 4S, but ...
#2 Yes, we are in FP, and Im bidding 5S now, partner cant expect a 6-5 fit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[han]

2S on a 6-card suit, you certainly have an open mind. Now it's a complete gamble, you still have all those losers you were afraid of earlier.

[JLOGIC]

han, on 2011-September-05, 07:20, said:

2S on a 6-card suit, you certainly have an open mind. Now it's a complete gamble, you still have all those losers you were afraid of earlier.

There was a hand in the cavendish where Joe raised to 2S on a 6 card suit and Brad kept calling it a psyche lol.

I would just pass now

[whereagles]

What does RHO have? Probably some 5440 or thereabouts. Opposite a 3-suiter I think our side may have decent chances, so I'll pass.

[jogs]

I would have bid 2♠ also. Hand has lots of losers.

5♠ now. Pass would be forcing, since opener bid game freely. Your hand is a disappointment. Not only do you bring no tricks on defense, your long spades means your side may have no spade tricks for defense.
5♠ may be a sacrifice, don't know. You don't want to defend a 5 level contract. Don't allow opponents to find their suit on the 5 level. Let them guess on the 6 level.

[Hanoi5]

jogs, on 2011-September-05, 16:55, said:

I would have bid 2♠ also. Hand has lots of losers.

5♠ now. Pass would be forcing, since opener bid game freely. Your hand is a disappointment. Not only do you bring no tricks on defense, your long spades means your side may have no spade tricks for defense.
5♠ may be a sacrifice, don't know. You don't want to defend a 5 level contract. Don't allow opponents to find their suit on the 5 level. Let them guess on the 6 level.

What? Opponents who have passed now make 6?

[phil_20686]

You should bid 4S because it will be a good spot opposite plenty of hands that are passing a non constructive two spades.

AKxxx
AJx
xxxx
x

Is on the heart finesse, for example.

AKxxx
Kxx
x
KQxx

Is an actual claimer.

On the given hand you should either pass or dble. 5S is way too much imo. It just doesnt seem that likely you are making 11 tricks when you are not getting 500. 20 total tricks does not seem that likely given your flat side suits. Also, a FP should give partner just enough encouragement to bid when its right to do so. ALso, just because they have bid like loons does not mean they are not in a decent spot. I would not consider bidding after 1S-2N-4S-5c-P*-P? would you? And that seems like a likely auction at team mates table.

[jogs]

Hanoi5, on 2011-September-05, 17:04, said:

What? Opponents who have passed now make 6?

Have no idea what pass of 1♠ followed by 4NT means. It's likely to be lots of distribution. Won't know til hand is posted.

[MrAce]

phil_20686, on 2011-September-06, 06:52, said:

You should bid 4S because it will be a good spot opposite plenty of hands that are passing a non constructive two spades.

AKxxx
AJx
xxxx
x

Is on the heart finesse, for example.

AKxxx
Kxx
x
KQxx

Is an actual claimer.

On the given hand you should either pass or dble. 5S is way too much imo. It just doesnt seem that likely you are making 11 tricks when you are not getting 500. 20 total tricks does not seem that likely given your flat side suits. Also, a FP should give partner just enough encouragement to bid when its right to do so. ALso, just because they have bid like loons does not mean they are not in a decent spot. I would not consider bidding after 1S-2N-4S-5c-P*-P? would you? And that seems like a likely auction at team mates table.

I am not sure if i agree that these hands pass over 2♠. But lets agree for the sake of argument before i tell you that you would have the same or similar dangers if i had bid 2♠ with only 4 card ♠.

[MrAce]

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Here is the hand. To me this is forcing pass situation, they are coming from pass and we bid a vulnerable game without an invitation, and then opponents bid. I actually felt this at the table that pd was loaded from initial pass of opponents, and knew that they have a monster fit too somewhere. Now looking at the guy's hand who decided to save with 0445 it should be much harder to save now , after all his pd may hold 5 of our trumps in this auction, oh well he made a good sacrifice for down 2, but at the table we could defeat only down 1 because pd led trump and when held with ♣, cashed AK ♥ for down 1.

[gwnn]

On the topic of single raises with 6-card support I prefer to keep a closed mind.

[MrAce]

Heh, at the table i thought we did a good job by not bidding 5♠, but now i see it is cold due to east being ♣+♥ squeezed

[han]

I don't see the squeeze but I might find the finesse.

[jogs]

gwnn, on 2011-September-07, 03:34, said:

On the topic of single raises with 6-card support I prefer to keep a closed mind.

That's because you don't appreciate that hand valuation is based on HCPs, trumps, and shortness of the side suits. Flat hands, those without singletons or voids must be devalued.

[jdeegan]

The rule is that if the opps bid over our freely bid game, a pass is forcing. In this particular instance, your hand is very unusual for a 2♠ bid. You can't mastermind in front of pard, so a pass is clear. You will face a real problem if he doubles which is most likely. Since his decision will be based on a faulty view of the hand, you will now have to decide what to do, pass or pull. I would pass. You have a completely soft hand with no stiff or void.

[MrAce]

jdeegan, on 2011-September-08, 09:39, said:

The rule is that if the opps bid over our freely bid game, a pass is forcing. In this particular instance, your hand is very unusual for a 2♠ bid. You can't mastermind in front of pard, so a pass is clear. You will face a real problem if he doubles which is most likely. Since his decision will be based on a faulty view of the hand, you will now have to decide what to do, pass or pull. I would pass. You have a completely soft hand with no stiff or void.

I really do not understand this comment. I mean it is okay that you may not agree with 2♠ or u may even think it is funny, i can even understand some may choose not to play this situation as a forcing pass situation. But once you decide that it is obvious forcing pass situation, i do not understand the pass, who on earth wants to make a forcing pass with this hand encouraging pd to bid at 5 level ? We have an awful hand, only thing that makes this hand okay to go all the way upto 4 level is 6 card trump support.

No void,

No singleton

No first round control in any of the 4 suits

No 2nd round control in any of the 4 suits

Totally wasted and worthless QJ of ♠ against a pd who showed 5+♠ and against his any ♠ holding, i'd prefer to have xxxxxx ♠ and have this QJ or a K somewhere else. Even if pd started with as bad as QJxxx ♠.

Except than my worthless QJ ♠, my remaining Q and J doesn't even support each other. Cmon now.

We all know to bid 4♠ with 6 card support, but as funny or as horrible as it may sound to some of you, after the hand i checked it with 5 very decent players. Including Justin Lall who was there. Except than one of them who thought 2♠ was awful, believe me or not 2 of them liked it, and other 2 including Justin, told that it is ok at these colors only and both opponents passing. Not that it would make a change on how i see this hand, i have extreme confident on my judgement in general, dont get this wrong, i did not mean i know better than others. I never underestimate what good players say, regardless of i agree or not because their comments is always a good information that knowing is never a bad thing in order to improve my judgement in long run.