[cherdano]

Beep.

[JanTucson]

When I first encountered WTF on another thread, I had no idea for what it stood. World Trade....?? Of course after reading THIS thread I'm well versed. The one thought that comes to mind, relevant or not, is that shouldn't BBO language be equivalent to a Zero Tolerance club requirement?

[matmat]

JanTucson, on Jun 30 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

When I first encountered WTF on another thread, I had no idea for what it stood. World Trade....?? Of course after reading THIS thread I'm well versed. The one thought that comes to mind, relevant or not, is that shouldn't BBO language be equivalent to a Zero Tolerance club requirement?

given how actively and diligently that is applied at the club level, I don't expect that much to happen on here.

[Elianna]

matmat, on Jun 30 2008, 04:19 PM, said:

JanTucson, on Jun 30 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

When I first encountered WTF on another thread, I had no idea for what it stood.  World Trade....??  Of course after reading THIS thread I'm well versed.  The one thought that comes to mind, relevant or not, is that shouldn't BBO language be equivalent to a Zero Tolerance club requirement?

given how actively and diligently that is applied at the club level, I don't expect that much to happen on here.

You mean you HOPE it doesn't happen here. That does seem to be the point of your posts. That people can be as rude as they want, and use as foul of language as they want, and if someone takes offense that's his fault.

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Jun 30 2008, 05:26 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jun 30 2008, 08:26 AM, said:

When someone asks you to stop using terms like this in an open forum to continue to do is just bad manners.

I can't see how anyone could disagree this. The essence of good manners is to avoid giving unnecessary offence.

I have a far stronger distaste for professional offense-takers than I do for people who use naughty words.

[Mbodell]

Elianna, on Jun 30 2008, 03:12 PM, said:

So to claim that saying f*** is ok in a setting that is supposed to be PG is not true.

Yeah, but WTF does not equal f***. I imagine if there was an AIM chat on a characters screen that included WTF and LOL and IMHO and other common online words that this wouldn't raise eyebrows or avoid a PG rating. For me WTF and LOL are words in and of themselves, but I imagine that is something that may correlate with age and computer usage.

[Mbodell]

pclayton, on Jun 30 2008, 03:02 PM, said:

To me, the difference is frequency. If you have a non-stop run of four-letter words during the round, or during dinner, or during your date, its a turn off. If it happens rarely to occasionally, no should raise an eyebrow.

There is a beautiful scene in the first season of The Wire with McNulty and Bunk investigating an old murder scene that has them just use the f-word some forty odd times but through tone of voice, pace, body language, and acting they have a conversation and tell a story just with that one word.

This whole conversation, and your paragraph in particular, remind me of that scene.

[the hog]

jdonn, on Jul 1 2008, 09:34 AM, said:

gnasher, on Jun 30 2008, 05:26 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jun 30 2008, 08:26 AM, said:

When someone asks you to stop using terms like this in an open forum to continue to do is just bad manners.

I can't see how anyone could disagree this. The essence of good manners is to avoid giving unnecessary offence.

I have a far stronger distaste for professional offense-takers than I do for people who use naughty words.

How sad for you that you don't respect the rights of other people.

[zasanya]

jdonn, on Jun 30 2008, 09:34 PM, said:

gnasher, on Jun 30 2008, 05:26 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jun 30 2008, 08:26 AM, said:

When someone asks you to stop using terms like this in an open forum to continue to do is just bad manners.

I can't see how anyone could disagree this. The essence of good manners is to avoid giving unnecessary offence.

I have a far stronger distaste for professional offense-takers than I do for people who use naughty words.

To suggest that some of us are "professional offense-takers" almost made me voice out the forbidden phrase.
BTW Cant help relating an incident that happened a few months ago.My son occasionally expresses interest in developing Bridge skills.So that day we decided to kib and we decided to kib the table where you and jlall were playing.After a few minutes both of us were a trifle embarassed .(No;not because of the card-play )
Just then i had to take a telephone call and when i came back after a few minutes i found he had turned the chat off.He is 18 and I know he uses the expletive in company of his friends.I am happy he never uses it in company of elders.

[jdonn]

The_Hog, on Jul 1 2008, 12:18 AM, said:

jdonn, on Jul 1 2008, 09:34 AM, said:

gnasher, on Jun 30 2008, 05:26 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jun 30 2008, 08:26 AM, said:

When someone asks you to stop using terms like this in an open forum to continue to do is just bad manners.

I can't see how anyone could disagree this. The essence of good manners is to avoid giving unnecessary offence.

I have a far stronger distaste for professional offense-takers than I do for people who use naughty words.

How sad for you that you don't respect the rights of other people.

And there I was thinking freedom of speech was a right. I didn't realize freedom to not read abbreviations for curse words was one too. I guess you also have the right to make huge leaps to randomly unjustified conclusions. In fact lots of rights are in play here. Right to act like an old fart and be proud of it. Right to decide what offends you. The list goes on.

[jdonn]

zasanya, on Jul 1 2008, 01:45 AM, said:

jdonn, on Jun 30 2008, 09:34 PM, said:

gnasher, on Jun 30 2008, 05:26 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jun 30 2008, 08:26 AM, said:

When someone asks you to stop using terms like this in an open forum to continue to do is just bad manners.

I can't see how anyone could disagree this. The essence of good manners is to avoid giving unnecessary offence.

I have a far stronger distaste for professional offense-takers than I do for people who use naughty words.

To suggest that some of us are "professional offense-takers" almost made me voice out the forbidden phrase.

I think you should have. You might feel better!

[Elianna]

jdonn, on Jun 30 2008, 10:57 PM, said:

And there I was thinking freedom of speech was a right. I didn't realize freedom to not read abbreviations for curse words was one too. I guess you also have the right to make huge leaps to randomly unjustified conclusions. In fact lots of rights are in play here. Right to act like an old fart and be proud of it. Right to decide what offends you. The list goes on.

Sure, freedom of speech is a right, but this is not a freedom of speech issue. These forums are owned/run by a private entity and they have set out rules for the use of the forums, as was quoted above.

And btw, I bet that you have worked at jobs where your "freedom of speech" was limited. I know that if I said any kind of swear word at my job, I'd be fired. They can't limit what I say in private, but I definitely can't use certain language at my job site.

Anyway, freedom of speech says that the government can't put you in jail for what you say, not that private corporations/people can't treat you differently for what you say. Totally different things.

[Codo]

jdonn, on Jul 1 2008, 03:57 PM, said:

And there I was thinking freedom of speech was a right. I didn't realize freedom to not read abbreviations for curse words was one too. I guess you also have the right to make huge leaps to randomly unjustified conclusions. In fact lots of rights are in play here. Right to act like an old fart and be proud of it. Right to decide what offends you. The list goes on.

Josh, you should know better then this.

There are borders for free speech. F.E. You are not allowed to claim in all your statements that I am a stupid little idiot. (You are allowed to think so of course).
This is a personal insult which is forbidden even under the rights of free speech.

To use offensive wording is a lesser crime of course.
To use language that does not offend people is a kind of respect.

If someone just respects himself and does not care about the emotions of others, he has the right to do so. Anybody has the right to behave stupid and egoistically.
If someone is not able to see how his wording can harm others, he is allowed to do so, we are allowed to have limited skills.
If someone believes that his wording is approbiate for the place where he is, he may use any word he wants. But he should not wonder if the client hires another pro next time.

OTOH: If people are unable to understand how the language is changing and that words with had been abusive 20 years ago are common now, they shoud stay in their senior citizens residents between themselves.

So I really like Justins statements here: He tried to understand something which is totally different from his way of thinking. He does not share Jillys views, but he showed his interesst to understand her view. That earns my respect.

[BillHiggin]

Codo, on Jul 1 2008, 03:22 AM, said:

OTOH: If people are unable to understand how the language is changing and that words with had been abusive 20 years ago are common now, they shoud stay in their senior citizens residents between themselves.

The same words were just as abusive AND common 20 (40 and 60) years ago as today. The idea that young people have that their usage is something novel is simply the same wrong idea that young people have always had.

40 years ago, there were censorship issues. Censorship merely added power to the gutter words.

Those who actually have something to say and some intelligence will find ways to get their ideas across without resorting to words which really have little to do with the topic.

[jillybean]

At 43 I hope I am still heading up the hill to senior citizenship. I don’t agree that the words are any less abusive than they were 20 years ago however I do agree the words are used more frequently but this I think is a direct result of the Internet. I do not hear my immediate circle of friends and contacts talking like this at all, ever! I’m not saying we don’t say oh ***** when we drop our bottle of prune juice or oh hell when we hear our friends hip replacement operation has been canceled. I never hear anyone say What The Fuck happened to my prune juice or those Mother F**kers have postponed my operation. I am surprised that Phil, who is 2 years my senior and others even more senior find it acceptable, even normal.

I think the problem is unique to the Internet and in some ways this forum in particular. In real life rather than hanging out with Justin, I’d be sitting with his Mum having a G&T. Justin and I may pass pleasantries but that would be about the extent of it. However, we are all thrown together here because we love this game. Regardless of age, race, religion the 1 and only thing that brings us all together is Bridge. I think that is great and somewhat unique. I value the opportunity to hear opinions of people I would never encounter at this level in real life. Obviously, problems come with this too. BBO have done a good job in setting out rules for the site and creating the WC for un-moderated speech. Sadly, I think standards are slipping and the boundaries between the WC and the bridge forum are disappearing.

[Codo]

As two people here have the feeling that the language did not change, I must change my statement:

Here where I life, the languages changes. Words that make my parents blush are common to my generation. But I had to learn that class mates of my son (15) uses words which makes me blush. And obviously they need worse wording to make me blush then I had to use opposite my parents.

I still believe that this is normal and happens anywhere. But obviously it does not happen where Bill and Jill are living.

[Wackojack]

People afflicted by Tourettes syndrome have my sympathy not my censure.

[zasanya]

Wackojack, on Jul 1 2008, 11:19 AM, said:

People afflicted by Tourettes syndrome have my sympathy not my censure.

Thats the best way of loking at it, I suppose. LOL

[pclayton]

jillybean2, on Jul 1 2008, 01:35 AM, said:

I’m not saying we don’t say oh ***** when we drop our bottle of prune juice or oh hell when we hear our friends hip replacement operation has been canceled.

I never hear anyone say What The Fuck happened to my prune juice or those Mother F**kers have postponed my operation.

ROFLPMP. Oh *****, maybe its time to buy some Depends.

Quote

I am surprised that Phil, who is 2 years my senior and others even more senior find it acceptable, even normal.

Age is a state of mind. I keep telling myself that anyway