[Al_U_Card]

On BSG they use the term "frak" in every possible replacement situation and the censors never said boo!

So...

What the frak?

I want to frak you.

Frak-off!

Frakking idiot...etc.


Words mean little as they are but the form.
The vibe is what counts as it includes intention and meaning.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

[Winstonm]

Frak = the old inn and oot.

[kenberg]

I got a great kick out of Trinidad's story.

Probably best not too draw to many lessons from it but it strikes me as a very modern story. We can all run around saying ***** but God forbid we tell a kid that climbing on the roof is stupid. No doubt we are to say it is an inappropriate use of the roof.

[luke warm]

Al_U_Card, on Jul 4 2008, 11:11 AM, said:

On BSG they use the term "frak" in every possible replacement situation and the censors never said boo!

So...

What the frak?

I want to frak you.

Frak-off!

Frakking idiot...etc.


Words mean little as they are but the form.
The vibe is what counts as it includes intention and meaning.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

you're right, and i find that to be idiotic and offensive... i even heard them use motherfracker once, i have no clue how they get away with it

[hrothgar]

luke warm, on Jul 5 2008, 01:54 AM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Jul 4 2008, 11:11 AM, said:

On BSG they use the term "frak" in every possible replacement situation and the censors never said boo! 

So...

What the frak?

I want to frak you.

Frak-off!

Frakking idiot...etc.


Words mean little as they are but the form. 
The vibe is what counts as it includes intention and meaning. 

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

you're right, and i find that to be idiotic and offensive... i even heard them use motherfracker once, i have no clue how they get away with it

The same term was used in the original show, 30 odd years ago...

[NickRW]

Just to add my 2 cents to this. I have a couple of English born aunts who are now Americans - they married USAF men like yonks ago. Once in a blue moon they come over to England to see the family. They are both - well - I suppose you'd call them well to do, middle class sorts of ladies. One indeed is at least a moderately a devout Catholic.

When they get here it is quite noticable that they say "bugger" a lot. I drew this to their attention - bugger in England is a mediumly offensive swear word. Apparently, according to my aunts, there are so many swear words you can't say in America - but, again according to them, you can say bugger because "Americans don't know what it means". I don't know if that is true or not but it is what they tell me.

The point of this little tale being that maybe some Americans are a little over sensitive - perhaps.

Anyway, I think the "f" word, when used in most contexts, is not really offensive at all. What is offensive is the *way* it and other words are sometimes used. To define what this "way" is is very hard - but people know when something is meant to offend and when it isn't.

Maybe we should all chill out.

Nick

[kenberg]

I have only rarely heard "bugger" used on my side of the Atlantic so I have never worried much about its meaning. If I were to be given a pop quiz on the subject, it is my understanding that to bugger someone is to ***** them in the ass. Is that correct? And I sort of think the buggee has to be male for it to be considered buggering, correct? Assuming that this is something like correct it seems weird to me that your Aunts take pleasure in using it even if they are confident they are not understood.

Offensive isn't exactly my issue. As it happens I have just returned from a party where one of the women grabbed her breasts in her hands, started rubbing them around, and declared that she wasn't wearing any bra. I am not exactly offended, nor was my wife, but I could do happily without the experience. My thought is we can get the guys who want to talk about ***** this and ***** that together with the lady who likes to rub her own tits and put them all in one room to entertain each other. The adults can then enjoy the party.

[NickRW]

kenberg, on Jul 5 2008, 01:04 AM, said:

I have only rarely heard "bugger" used on my side of the Atlantic so I have never worried much about its meaning. If I were to be given a pop quiz on the subject, it is my understanding that to bugger someone is to ***** them in the ass. Is that correct? And I sort of think the buggee has to be male for it to be considered buggering, correct? Assuming that this is something like correct it seems weird to me that your Aunts take pleasure in using it even if they are confident they are not understood.

Offensive isn't exactly my issue. As it happens I have just returned from a party where one of the women grabbed her breasts in her hands, started rubbing them around, and declared that she wasn't wearing any bra. I am not exactly offended, nor was my wife, but I could do happily without the experience. My thought is we can get the guys who want to talk about ***** this and ***** that together with the lady who likes to rub her own tits and put them all in one room to entertain each other. The adults can then enjoy the party.

It is word that can be applied where the recipient is male or female, but is usually the former. But that is one definition. The other one is the Brit slang meaning.

I don't think my aunts particularly delight in the use of this word - my point was more that they are relieved to be able to express themselves without being told that they are causing offence.

Nick

[the hog]

kenberg, on Jul 5 2008, 08:04 AM, said:

Offensive isn't exactly my issue. As it happens I have just returned from a party where one of the women grabbed her breasts in her hands, started rubbing them around, and declared that she wasn't wearing any bra. I am not exactly offended, nor was my wife, but I could do happily without the experience. My thought is we can get the guys who want to talk about ***** this and ***** that together with the lady who likes to rub her own tits and put them all in one room to entertain each other. The adults can then enjoy the party.

Your understanding of the word is partly correct. A male or a female can be involved.

You go to some strange parties.

[Winstonm]

The_Hog, on Jul 4 2008, 08:35 PM, said:

kenberg, on Jul 5 2008, 08:04 AM, said:

Offensive isn't exactly my issue. As it happens I have just returned from a party where one of the women grabbed her breasts in her hands, started rubbing them around, and declared that she wasn't wearing any bra. I am not exactly offended, nor was my wife, but I could do happily without the experience.  My thought is we can get the guys who want to talk about ***** this and ***** that together with the lady who likes to rub her own tits and put them all in one room to entertain each other. The adults can then enjoy the party.

Your understanding of the word is partly correct. A male or a female can be involved.

You go to some strange parties.

You also seem to know some strange partys.

[luke warm]

hrothgar, on Jul 4 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

luke warm, on Jul 5 2008, 01:54 AM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Jul 4 2008, 11:11 AM, said:

On BSG they use the term "frak" in every possible replacement situation and the censors never said boo! 

So...

What the frak?

I want to frak you.

Frak-off!

Frakking idiot...etc.


Words mean little as they are but the form. 
The vibe is what counts as it includes intention and meaning. 

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

you're right, and i find that to be idiotic and offensive... i even heard them use motherfracker once, i have no clue how they get away with it

The same term was used in the original show, 30 odd years ago...

ns? i didn't know that

[kenberg]

Well, wtf.


I'm bored with this discussion.


Of course people will continue to speak as they choose. I wouldn't want it any other way.

I'm not big on wtf, but then I am also not big on ntp after someone butchers a hand and I am not so fond of Have a Nice Day either.


I like it best when what people say has some reasonable correspondence with what they mean. We have heard on this thread that wtf does not really mean What the ***** it just sort of means well not much of anything. Like ntp. Or a burp.

So wtf. I have no useful thoughts here.

[TimG]

NickRW, on Jul 4 2008, 07:22 PM, said:

When they get here it is quite noticable that they say "bugger" a lot. I drew this to their attention - bugger in England is a mediumly offensive swear word.

This American had no idea. I would have guessed that "bugger" was about the equivalent of saying "oh heck".

[barmar]

NickRW, on Jul 4 2008, 08:22 PM, said:

When they get here it is quite noticable that they say "bugger" a lot. I drew this to their attention - bugger in England is a mediumly offensive swear word. Apparently, according to my aunts, there are so many swear words you can't say in America - but, again according to them, you can say bugger because "Americans don't know what it means". I don't know if that is true or not but it is what they tell me.

In the case of swear words, it doesn't matter what something means. After all, "*****" means the same thing as "have sexual intercourse", and "*****" is the same as "feces", but the latter aren't vulgar. What's considered vulger depends on the societies proprieties of the time, and "bugger" isn't part of the American vocabulary of swearing.

On "Star Trek: The Next Generation", Picard often said "merde", which is the French equivalent of "oh, *****!". And others have mentioned BSG's "frak". Whether you know what these means or not, they don't offend your sensibilities because they aren't curses to you.

I wonder: when ST:TNG was exported to France, what did they have him say when the English version said "merde"? This is always a tricky issue in translating -- what to do when the speaker isn't talking in his usual language.

[sceptic]

I always thought buggery and sodomy were male and female related

[the hog]

sceptic, on Jul 5 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

I always thought buggery and sodomy were male and female related

No, don't think so. Even the bible makes mention of sodomites and this in a male to male context.

Reminds me of when bob Hawke, the then Australian Prime Minister, referred to a voter who abused him as, "You silly old bugger."

Anyway, here is a possible answer:

A Greek and an Irishman:

A Greek and an Irishman were sitting in a Starbuck's cafe one day discussing who had the superior culture.
Over triple lattes the Greek guy says, 'Well, we Greeks built the Parthenon,' arching his eyebrows.
The Irishman then replies, 'Well... it was the Irish that discovered the Summer and Winter Solstices.'
The Greek retorts, 'We Greeks gave birth to advanced mathematics.'
The Irishman, nodding in agreement, says, 'Irish were the ones who built the first timepieces and calendars.'
And so on until the Greek comes up with what he thinks will end the discussion. With a flourish of finality he says, 'The Greeks were the ones who invented sex!'
The Irishman replies, 'Indeed, that is true, but it was we Irish who introduced it to women.'

[han]

kenberg, on Jul 4 2008, 10:33 PM, said:

I'm not big on wtf, but then I am also not big on ntp after someone butchers a hand...

Even worse is "wdp"after the defense has screwed up, that is truly offensive. I think best is not to allow public talk on BBO anymore. People will still be able to communicate by private chat, where they are not as likely to offend others.

[kenberg]

han, on Jul 5 2008, 04:58 AM, said:

kenberg, on Jul 4 2008, 10:33 PM, said:

I'm not big on wtf, but then I am also not big on ntp after someone butchers a hand...

Even worse is "wdp"after the defense has screwed up, that is truly offensive.

Yes, we are getting into the truly obscene here. If I am the defender who has just handed them the gift I am often tempted to respond to wdp with gfy. The little buggers.

Question for the Brits: I suppose that bugger, used as a noun, should be one who bugs. Buggerer should be the term for one who buggers. Is this distinction correct? If so, little buggers may be acceptable for, say, describing children. Otherwise it's difficult for me to get my mind around the idea that it's just fine to call someone an ass-*****, almost regardless of the situation. I realize words sort of lose their punch with repetition, but still...

[hrothgar]

luke warm, on Jul 5 2008, 05:26 AM, said:

hrothgar, on Jul 4 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

luke warm, on Jul 5 2008, 01:54 AM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Jul 4 2008, 11:11 AM, said:

On BSG they use the term "frak" in every possible replacement situation and the censors never said boo! 

So...

What the frak?

I want to frak you.

Frak-off!

Frakking idiot...etc.


Words mean little as they are but the form. 
The vibe is what counts as it includes intention and meaning. 

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

you're right, and i find that to be idiotic and offensive... i even heard them use motherfracker once, i have no clue how they get away with it

The same term was used in the original show, 30 odd years ago...

ns? i didn't know that

Yeap...

As I understand matters, it was spelled "Frack" rather than Frak...

It also seems to have been used as a surrogate for the word "*****" rather than (well, we all know what Frak refers to)

In some ways, this is a rather amusing reflection on changing standards. In the late 70s, the BSG writers were looking for creative ways to avoid saying ***** on TV. Now-a-days...

[sceptic]

I do not think bugger is consider anything other than a mild expression, I cant say I have ever heard it used as anything other than a very mild expletive and I can't recall anyone really taking offence at this word. I would rate it along side calling some one silly