[pescetom]

 mycroft, on 2024-December-16, 18:07, said:

per Kickback, most of the problems I've seen have been not in diamonds, but in hearts (which I know isn't "red"wood).
4♠ -1 with 6♥ on, or 5♥-1 with 4♠ making (and intended), or 4♥= with 4♠+1 but "can't be bid" (but of course it could and would, at least partner will *say so* after). Yes, it's a useful tool, and allows for ace-asking in many situations normal KC players will have to either guess or hope; but my partners aren't inured to "oopsies" in slam auctions, and will remember the one mistake to the 5 wins (and the 30 didn't matters). And so will I. And again, it's worth putting the effort of "disambiguating auctions" into the 10 competitive auctions we get a session rather than the maybe 0-2 keycard auctions, even if 90+% of *those* are unambiguous to the kibitzer over there at the poker table.

Quote you 100% there. And in one of those bewildering short-circuits between forum discussion and bridge at the table, yesterday I had a misunderstanding in a diamonds auction because partner took my 4♥ control bid as Kickback and started to respond RKCB Luckily I was sitting on 21 HCP as responder (it's Christmas) and so was able to shut him up with 7♦, to the surprise of the table. Which somehow turned out to be a top all the same, even though 7NT was cold. Not good for partnership confidence though, even when you escape real damage.

[jillybean]

Was that UI or AI !!? 🤔Nice hand opposite a partner who opens the bidding.

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2024-December-17, 09:08, said:

Quote you 100% there. And in one of those bewildering short-circuits between forum discussion and bridge at the table, yesterday I had a misunderstanding in a diamonds auction because partner took my 4♥ control bid as Kickback and started to respond RKCB Luckily I was sitting on 21 HCP as responder (it's Christmas) and so was able to shut him up with 7♦, to the surprise of the table. Which somehow turned out to be a top all the same, even though 7NT was cold. Not good for partnership confidence though, even when you escape real damage.

What is the belief that 4H is a control bid in a diamonds auction given you are playing kickback?

If you are not playing kickback, then confusion reigns 😊

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2024-December-17, 10:37, said:

Was that UI or AI !!? 🤔Nice hand opposite a partner who opens the bidding.

And was jumping to the grand authorised panic? I can imagine Blackshoe moving this to Simple Rulings already

I did have a fleeting thought about that, but it seemed academic. The CC said 4NT as RKCB except over clubs, no alert was required or allowed, no questions were asked. Partner's bid of 4NT over 4♥ (this pard prefers 0314) was also a clear wakeup to a misunderstanding as it was impossible within the control-bid sequence (he could not have even keycards, I had four). I gave him some rope for a mistake there, but when he jumped over my 5♣ it was clear what must be going on.

[pescetom]

 mike777, on 2024-December-17, 11:00, said:

What is the belief that 4H is a control bid in a diamonds auction given you are playing kickback?

If you are not playing kickback, then confusion reigns 😊

We were playing Kickback only over clubs. In the distant past, we briefly played clubs as the asking strain over diamonds. We haven't been playing together much this year. I have no idea where he got the idea that we were playing hearts rather than NT as the asking strain over diamonds. Maybe because he saw it had appeared in some convention developments and assumed without discussion it was on always.

[HardVector]

It would be easy if N knew (or remembered) the saying, "What do you call an 8 card suit?". Answer; "Trump".

So N would just keep bidding clubs until the cows come home, and South begins to realize how good their hand is.