[pescetom]

Either the federal server that deals hands is sensitive to solar activity or probability does not work quite the way we expect, but these combinations of a rock crusher opposite a weak but unbalanced hand just keep on coming.

Here's one that caused havoc in yesterday's national sim.
Let's start with just the rock crusher, assuming partner passed (we can discuss that later if necessary).
Assume that partner does not have a well-honoured 5+ card suit if that allows you to progress significantly.

MP

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Your opening bid and plan for rebids?

[mw64ahw]

Playing reverse Kokish relay/'birthtright'
2♣ - 2♦ waiting
2♥ 20-21 or ♥s - 2♠ assuming no relay break with a Bust hand.
3♣ you can play as natural, but I also play as showing exactly 5♥
or
3♥ if you use a Grue switch

[mike777]

2 C
Rebid H at cheapest level

[mycroft]

I have the same ideas as the rest. Hoping that "cheapest level" isn't 5...(actually, mostly hoping it's not going to go p-p-2♣-2♠; p (values)-3♠. I don't actually *expect* 4. And frankly, I'm not sure I am bidding hearts at the 5 level if they do. I've got a minimum, and no real length (although I guarantee we have a fit somewhere). I might just suggest taking the points.)

[pescetom]

Interesting, mildly suprised nobody would bid this as some level of 2NT, rather than starting with hearts.
I would do so with one partner, and in that case I see it as much stronger than 22 (cyberyeti sleeping on the job, again), worth an upgrade to 24-25 opposite a passed hand.
But this partner is traditional with no 5 card Stayman and 2♣ is the usual "natural" stuff with no Birthright, so I decided I would bid 2♣ and then hearts.
To my surprise, opponents were silent and she bid the usual 2♦ "waiting" that merely denies a well honoured 5+ suit.
So I bid 2♥ and she bid 3♦.
What now?
Bid 3NT trusting in the spades silence, or 4♣ natural and be damned?

[mycroft]

Well, if I don't have Birthright/Kokish, then I'm bidding 2NT after 2♣. I hate showing two-suiters after 2♣ (and this one's the easiest) so 2NT it is.
But when you have a tool that's perfect for a situation, why not use it?

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2024-October-23, 09:15, said:

Interesting, mildly suprised nobody would bid this as some level of 2NT, rather than starting with hearts.
I would do so with one partner, and in that case I see it as much stronger than 22 (cyberyeti sleeping on the job, again), worth an upgrade to 24-25 opposite a passed hand.
But this partner is traditional with no 5 card Stayman and 2♣ is the usual "natural" stuff with no Birthright, so I decided I would bid 2♣ and then hearts.
To my surprise, opponents were silent and she bid the usual 2♦ "waiting" that merely denies a well honoured 5+ suit.
So I bid 2♥ and she bid 3♦.
What now?
Bid 3NT trusting in the spades silence, or 4♣ natural and be damned?

I typed up a reply saying just that, but realised we would end up in 3N when it's wrong a lot. I would definitely upgrade if the ranges said 23-24, but ours are 22-23 and 24-25, and not sure I want to go all the way to 24.

We play birthright, so I could bid a slow 2N 22-23 and reply 3♥ to our major enquiry, but that also can lose a club fit.

So I prefer 2♣ 2♥ 3♣

[pescetom]

mycroft, on 2024-October-23, 09:30, said:

I hate showing two-suiters after 2♣ (and this one's the easiest)

Fully agreed. But I figured "this is their system, let's follow it".

mycroft, on 2024-October-23, 09:30, said:

But when you have a tool that's perfect for a situation, why not use it?

To convey our unusual quantitative strength to passed hand, knowing that he can find either fit all the same?

[akwoo]

I'm treating this as 23 balanced.

[mike777]

Understand the temptation to treat this as balanced but don't like making partner Captain on this deal. So..
2C-2D (gf promises at least one Ace or King)
2 ❤️ - 3 💎
3 ❤️ -?
I would add helps if partner did not have the option of opening weak 2 💎

[mike777]

Understand the temptation to treat this as balanced but don't like making partner Captain on this deal. So..
2C-2D (gf promises at least one Ace or King)
2 ❤️ - 3 💎
3 ❤️ -?
I would add helps if partner did not have the option of opening weak 2 💎

[mycroft]

Well, if I don't have Birthright/Kokish, then I'm bidding 2NT after 2♣. I hate showing two-suiters after 2♣ (and this one's the easiest) so 2NT it is.
But when you have a tool that's perfect for a situation, why not use it?

[pescetom]

The TD has already been called for the BIT, and the forum bug is making things messy too.
Some would have opened as North, which also makes discussion murky.
So to get back on track, here are both hands.

MP

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Your thoughts on how it would have gone on both ends with your preferred methods?

For the record, about half the national field was in 3NT, the rest mainly down in 4♠ (after a transfer) or 5♦.

[mike777]

Probably
2C-2H(deny A or K non gf)
3H-3S
3NT-P

[pescetom]

mike777, on 2024-October-23, 15:43, said:

Probably
2C-2H(deny A or K non gf)
3H-3S
3NT-P

With my preferred agreements it would start exactly the same way.
But after the 2♥ red flag I think I would bid 3NT (24+ Bal) rather than 3♥ invitatonal...
as it happens here, partner would either pass or take a view and transfer to 4♠.

[mycroft]

My guess:
2♣-2♦ (semi-auto);
2♥-2♠ (forced);
3♣-3♦;
3NT-p.

Possibly partner will decide that "it plays better in the weak hand's suit" and tries 4♠ after; which would probably play.

I hate 3NT on a misfit, especially one where I'm "playing it out of my hand"; but here the points (♣J ♦Q) are golden.

[mike777]

pescetom, on 2024-October-23, 15:55, said:

With my preferred agreements it would start exactly the same way. Why upgrade to 24+?
But after the 2♥ red flag I think I would bid 3NT (24+ Bal) rather than 3♥ invitatonal...
as it happens here, partner would either pass or take a view and transfer to 4♠.

[mw64ahw]

Interesting one to value given North has much shape, but possibly no tricks in NT, so there are various ways this could go. Firstly treating as a bust hand opposite 20-21 which is reverse Kokish. After 2♣-2♦-2♥ I now use. (A discussion can be found at https://rec.games.br...aking-the-relay)
Pass 5+♥
2N minor suit/both Majors
3♣ 5+♠
3♦ 5♥4♠
3♥ 4♥5♠
3♠ 5♣♦
3N I use this to show slam going with minors.
I show ♠ before ♦ and end in 3N
Treating as a positive hand also ends in 3N whichever approach I take e.g.
2♣-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♥ x5x4-3♠
3N

[pescetom]

As you say, it's an interesting and difficult evaluation for North. I suggested that over my "natural" 2H it would have been more prudent and productive to bid 2S rather than 3D, allowing Opener more space to describe his hand and the partnership more chance of identifying 3NT or 4S as the contract - but maybe I was resulting or just transferring blame.

[mw64ahw]

pescetom, on 2024-October-24, 02:47, said:

As you say, it's an interesting and difficult evaluation for North. I suggested that over my "natural" 2H it would have been more prudent and productive to bid 2S rather than 3D, allowing Opener more space to describe his hand and the partnership more chance of identifying 3NT or 4S as the contract - but maybe I was resulting or just transferring blame.

I play Majors always first so would naturally bid ♠ before ♦ and can switch bids to accommodate this. For example I can play:
2♣-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♣ 5♥-3♦ as ♠
which means bids above 3♦ show 6♥(4xx)