[goat22]

I held. S A10742. H A864 D A10 C 74
Opened 1 space overall 3 club nat weak partner passes as does other oppo
Would you bid ?

[jillybean]

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Vulnerability?

I pass, I have a partner, double would promise a better hand

[Frank_lol_]

Pass. This hand has good defensive value, and I'm not bidding on the three level with this.

[mikeh]

Depends on my opps. You’re allowed to ask his partner about their preempting style

I have a partner whose 3C bids are so weak that I won’t post any examples! If he were on my left, I’d double.

Garbage overcalls often avoid what they deserve, simply because the opps assume that th3 bidder isn’t insane��

But against most players, especially anyone who needs 7 clubs to bid 3C, passing is probably the percentage call…but I hate it!

Edit: I’m not sure what Frank means by his reference to bidding at the 3 level. No way does this hand make a 3 level bid, but double is a close decision

[LBengtsson]

If the opps. make garbage pre-empts, I'will protect with a garbage X

But honestly, with 5422 shape and a minimum hand, despite the three aces, Pass looks most like the bid that many will make.

[Tramticket]

I am at the lower end of a 1S opening in our system (weak NT, 4-card majors). But if we are playing pairs with neither side vulnerable (as in Jillybean's diagram), then I am making a reopening double.

Partner probably has an average of 10 points and two clubs. If this is the case, then the opponents have an eight or nine-card fit and we are odds-on to have a fit somewhere. If they are making 3C, then 2-off might be ok (it might not be easy for them to double). If partner has (say) Hxx in clubs and a balanced hand, they might pass for penalties at pairs and you will expect to beat 3C.

[Cyberyeti]

Frank_lol_, on 2023-February-11, 16:28, said:

Pass. This hand has good defensive value, and I'm not bidding on the three level with this.

This is a dangerous pass, a hand as bad as x, Kxxxxx, xxx, xxx makes game and doesn't beat 4♣.

I think I double, not liking it much

[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-February-12, 03:15, said:

This is a dangerous pass, a hand as bad as x, Kxxxxx, xxx, xxx makes game and doesn't beat 4♣.

I think I double, not liking it much

It is frequently possible to choose a weak but perfect fitting hand opposite where a very marginal action works over a sound action. Bidding on the assumption that partner is going to hold super cards for you is something that happens in magazine bidding challenges IMO, not my experience at the table. I'm not saying double isn't right but would be cautious of looking at one hand where it works. What matters is how frequently on average would it work given the auction, and that cannot be determined with a sample size of one.

[Cyberyeti]

AL78, on 2023-February-12, 04:11, said:

It is frequently possible to choose a weak but perfect fitting hand opposite where a very marginal action works over a sound action. Bidding on the assumption that partner is going to hold super cards for you is something that happens in magazine bidding challenges IMO, not my experience at the table. I'm not saying double isn't right but would be cautious of looking at one hand where it works. What matters is how frequently on average would it work given the auction, and that cannot be determined with a sample size of one.

I'm also delighted if partner passes, the only thing that I really don't like is if partner bids 3♦

[the hog]

"I’m not sure what Frank means by his reference to bidding at the 3 level. No way does this hand make a 3 level bid, but double is a close decision"
No and it is not close.

[DavidKok]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-February-12, 04:21, said:

I'm also delighted if partner passes, the only thing that I really don't like is if partner bids 3♦

If partner pulls to 3♠ I am terrified, especially if we get doubled. If partner bids 3NT we're also too high (partner's failure to bid 3NT last round indicates a lack of values).

I'd pass. If partner has a penalty double of 3♣, oh well.

[mikeh]

Tramticket, on 2023-February-12, 03:10, said:

I am at the lower end of a 1S opening in our system (weak NT, 4-card majors). But if we are playing pairs with neither side vulnerable (as in Jillybean's diagram), then I am making a reopening double.

Partner probably has an average of 10 points and two clubs. If this is the case, then the opponents have an eight or nine-card fit and we are odds-on to have a fit somewhere. If they are making 3C, then 2-off might be ok (it might not be easy for them to double). If partner has (say) Hxx in clubs and a balanced hand, they might pass for penalties at pairs and you will expect to beat 3C.

Your arithmetic is flawed

There are many 10 counts with which he’d have bid

If he has 3 spades and 9+ hcp, he can’t pass 3C.

If he has, say, 2=4=5=2 or 2=5=4=2 and 9+ hcp he should double

One can construct some decent hands where pass is best. Say 2=3=6=2…..but to claim that he has on average 10 hcp and 2 clubs makes no sense

You can’t draw any solid inference from RHO’s pass. RHO needs a very good hand to bid over 3C, and we can infer that he’s not looking at a very good hand, if only because he rates to hold zero aces and short clubs.

I think it’s more accurate to say that partner could have as much as a misfitting 10 count, or a clear penalty pass, but will, on average, hold less.