[pescetom]

I was wondering what people do/suggest after partner's 1♣/1♦ (5cM, NT 15-17) opening is overcalled 1NT by RHO and they have a shapely hand or just a good number of HCP.

This isn't something I have seen much discussed (beyond suggestions to play X as penalty) and is also hard to locate in internet because the search engines seem to consider prepositions as mere noise and trot out articles about how to interfere over 1NT or cope with interference over 1NT
Even Roy Hughes just says that many partnerships play artificial takeouts or simply play the same methods as they do over a 1NT opening (which I guess would fit well in my main partnership, reverting to a basic Stayman and retaining the transfers plus Range Ask).

Any thoughts? I appreciate this is probably more a MP concern and not too frequent, but it does look worth having some decent agreement.

[DavidKok]

Standard is double penalty-oriented, any 2-bid is weak and to play. Some people make an exception for 1m-(1NT)-2♣, using that as a Stayman ask. With a somewhat strong shapely hand you will have to choose between doubling and jumping to the 3-level. The argument is that you'll have a weak-ish hand that has no game chances opposite 12-14 balanced far more often than you'll have one that wants to bid constructively, since approximately 27 points are already accounted for.

[mycroft]

Saying the same thing the other way:

Against a 15-17 NT, it is considered best to put most of your bidding effort into winning the partscore and disrupting their system, giving up on games to do so. Most have gone away from a penalty double as well, but...

Against a good 15-18 NT overcall, the chance of game is equally small. So we're still spending most of our effort into winning the partscore and disrupting their system, giving up game search to do so. I like 2NT in this auction as "GF, can't insist on anything yet" for the very rare times, especially when vul vs not, that game is worth investigating. That leaves all the other bids to "compete for partscore" and "disrupt their system".

But since you have the benefit of the knowledge that partner opened, and you know where 12 + 16 = 28 +/- 2 HCP are, you are much more likely to "know they're playing out of their hand" i.e. dummy's blank. And without entry to the board, "finesse the strong hand" is something declarer can't do (and you're not likely to do for them more than once). So here, "any decent 9" is probably best defending, especially without the 11 or so or extreme shape that would make game your way on. So you double with those hands.

Which means that all bids are not only "compete for partscore" but also "NF, because I don't have a decent 9". How weak you want to make them is up to agreement, but as always, the fewer the HCP, the more tricks you expect to take in long trumps. You are also allowed to pass, after all.

I am now reminded of the pair in Penticton who, when the director was called to their table early in the week, said that they didn't have to Announce their 12-14 HCP 1NT *overcall*. Which, of course, was true. The director told them, however, that they had to Alert them instead (still do with the new Alert Procedure). Oddly enough, by the end of the week, they weren't playing 12-14 1NT overcalls any more.

[michel444]

 mycroft, on 2022-October-07, 13:19, said:

Saying the same thing the other way:

Against a 15-17 NT, it is considered best to put most of your bidding effort into winning the partscore and disrupting their system, giving up on games to do so. Most have gone away from a penalty double as well, but...

Against a good 15-18 NT overcall, the chance of game is equally small. So we're still spending most of our effort into winning the partscore and disrupting their system, giving up game search to do so. I like 2NT in this auction as "GF, can't insist on anything yet" for the very rare times, especially when vul vs not, that game is worth investigating. That leaves all the other bids to "compete for partscore" and "disrupt their system".

But since you have the benefit of the knowledge that partner opened, and you know where 12 + 16 = 28 +/- 2 HCP are, you are much more likely to "know they're playing out of their hand" i.e. dummy's blank. And without entry to the board, "finesse the strong hand" is something declarer can't do (and you're not likely to do for them more than once). So here, "any decent 9" is probably best defending, especially without the 11 or so or extreme shape that would make game your way on. So you double with those hands.

Which means that all bids are not only "compete for partscore" but also "NF, because I don't have a decent 9". How weak you want to make them is up to agreement, but as always, the fewer the HCP, the more tricks you expect to take in long trumps. You are also allowed to pass, after all.

I am now reminded of the pair in Penticton who, when the director was called to their table early in the week, said that they didn't have to Announce their 12-14 HCP 1NT *overcall*. Which, of course, was true. The director told them, however, that they had to Alert them instead (still do with the new Alert Procedure). Oddly enough, by the end of the week, they weren't playing 12-14 1NT overcalls any more.

I agree with most most hand with 9-10 point shouild Double for penality stronger hand is problematic
weaker hand
support major (5 card major ) with 3+
support minor with 4+
all other are weak showing 4+ up the line
for stronger hand 11+
never found this to hapen I think begin transfer from 2NT
so 2NT t->♣
3♣ t-> ♦
3♦ t-> ♥
3♥ t-> ♠
3♠ ???
this should be sorted out when partner open a Major ..
michel

[michel444]

The 1NT can be a comic or T/O even some Psych ask oponet before biding

[michel444]

When opponet interfer on your partner 1NT
you have at least 3 convention to deal with it
1 Lebensolh
2 Rubensolh
3 Kantar
Michel

[pescetom]

 mycroft, on 2022-October-07, 13:19, said:

Against a good 15-18 NT overcall, the chance of game is equally small. So we're still spending most of our effort into winning the partscore and disrupting their system, giving up game search to do so. I like 2NT in this auction as "GF, can't insist on anything yet" for the very rare times, especially when vul vs not, that game is worth investigating. That leaves all the other bids to "compete for partscore" and "disrupt their system".

But since you have the benefit of the knowledge that partner opened, and you know where 12 + 16 = 28 +/- 2 HCP are, you are much more likely to "know they're playing out of their hand" i.e. dummy's blank. And without entry to the board, "finesse the strong hand" is something declarer can't do (and you're not likely to do for them more than once). So here, "any decent 9" is probably best defending, especially without the 11 or so or extreme shape that would make game your way on. So you double with those hands.

Which means that all bids are not only "compete for partscore" but also "NF, because I don't have a decent 9". How weak you want to make them is up to agreement, but as always, the fewer the HCP, the more tricks you expect to take in long trumps. You are also allowed to pass, after all.

I see your point, transfers would be more effective with vision of game and/or opener's strength more closely limited. But still it irks me to play for the partscore with the stronger hand on the table and (above all) the blank hand rather than the bad guy on lead.

 mycroft, on 2022-October-07, 13:19, said:

I am now reminded of the pair in Penticton who, when the director was called to their table early in the week, said that they didn't have to Announce their 12-14 HCP 1NT *overcall*. Which, of course, was true. The director told them, however, that they had to Alert them instead (still do with the new Alert Procedure). Oddly enough, by the end of the week, they weren't playing 12-14 1NT overcalls any more.

Our problems are more the occasional beginners who just don't have the natural strength range clear (no wish to bash bunnies, but if they stray into the competitive tourney there is no choice) and a few experienced pairs who will overcall 1NT without a stop in the minor (sometimes willing to explain when asked, never ready with the alert).

[mikeh]

I play different methods with each of my two current partners

My most complex varies according to whether we’ve opened a minor or a major


1m (1N)

X. Penalty

2C. Majors

2D one major. (Opener’s bid of a major is pass or correct)

2M 5 card M and 4+ in partner’s minor

2N strong distributional raise of the minor (will have 6 clubs if clubs, since 1C is 2+)

3 of opener’s minor. Preemptive raise


After 1M (1N)

X. Penalty

2C. Both majors….usually 3 in opener’s and 5+ in the other

2D. Constructive raise of opener’s major

2M. Weak raise

2OM. Weak, 6+ length

2N. Strong 4 card raise with shape

3M preemptive


You will see that we generally can’t compete in a minor, specially after we open a major. We are an imp oriented partnership and so far we haven’t had any bad results from not finding 2m over their 1N. If we do, it’s likely at most 5 imps.

[pescetom]

 mikeh, on 2022-October-08, 09:47, said:

My most complex varies according to whether we’ve opened a minor or a major

Thanks, carefully noted for when I am in a more ambitious partnership and play mainly IMPs
But I see I was right that there is more to this than catches the eye.

[michel444]

I think it is not permited to do but 1NT in second chair can be T/O 14+value with splinter in suit bid by oponer .
CATOMULTI GO evn more agresively on Minor




CATOMULT – Option “He-Man”


Not Vul?
(1C) Double 15+
1D/1H/1S 7-15 Canape (can be good intermediate jump without a stop)
1NT 5-9 3 Suited
2C 10-14 3 Suited
2D Multi
2H 5-9 4+/4+ Majors
2S Good Preempt in any suit
2NT Good Intermediate Jump in D with a stop
3C 10-14 5+/5+ Both Majors
3D Good Intermediate Jump in D with no stop
3Maj Poor preempt

(1D) Double 15+
1H/1S 7-15 Canape (can be good intermediate jump without a stop)
1NT 5-9 3 Suited
2C 10-14 3 Suited
2D Multi
2H 5-9 4+/4+ Majors
2S Good Preempt in any suit
2NT Good Intermediate Jump in C with a stop
3C Good Intermediate Jump in C with no stop
3D 10-14 5+/5+ Both Majors
3Maj Poor preempt


so 1nt can be 4441 (4450) with 5 point

[helene_t]

Good hands don't come up often, and when they do it is usually appropriate to double. Nevertheless, transfers make some sense as you want the 1NT overcaller to be on lead. And it's not like you need a natural 2♣ bid that badly.

After for example 1♠-(1NT)-? you could play
dbl = penalty, i.e. most 8+ hands
2♣ = diamonds
2♦ = hearts
2♥ = good spade raise. Or maybe H+m according to taste?
2♠ = to play
2NT = scrambling, maybe including good hands with spades?

The 2NT bid is often more efficiently played as reverse scrambling, here it would be
2NT=one minor or a good hand with either hearts or spades
3♣=clubs and a red suit
3♦= red suits
3M = preempt