[charliejef]

Would be interested in members’ views if there is any mileage in pursuing the issue below with BBO’s disciplinary process.
Playing in Acol Casual Bridge,you hold 10xx,KJxxxx,x,10xx,game all. First in hand with a new partner whose limited system details says weak NT and strong 2s. You pass and hear 3D on your left. 3H says pard,5D on your right. It’s not a bidding challenge question ,but what do you bid?
Rightly or wrongly you opt for 5H,back to the man on your right who doubles. AC lead and on BBO you now see your partner’s hand who is Declarer= 9xxxx,AQx,Ax,QJx.They misdefend and we get out for menus 800( they make 5D as a point of information). I received a torrent of abuse from partner,including imbecile and idiot.He said he would be leaving the table as he did not wish to play any more with such an idiot. Having left the table, ten minutes or so later he then sent me a private message on lines of “have you made any more 4point bids,you idiot.” I have been playing bridge for nearly 60 years and understand that there are a few not so pleasant people around.Personally,his remarks do not upset me but it is not within the spirit of the game.
OK,my bid may well have been gross but there is still a standard of decent manners to follow.
Any views?

[sfi]

I have no idea if reporting this sort of behaviour does any good on BBO, but it's not behaviour that should be encouraged.

FWIW, 5H looks totally normal on your hand.

[thepossum]

I haven't been playing Bridge quite as long as you (only 40+ years) but have struggled playing a game on this site without getting abused. Most recently I was called an idiot part way through a hand (by dummy - a more advanced player) while on target to make 5 diamonds doubled - I hadnt yet messed up the contract - who knows why I was abused. I suggest you just tell the people how you feel about that abuse. Thats what I did and will always do. Nobody is entitled to engage in personal abuse of a partner or opponent. I don't know if there is a disciplinary procedure. But its not very pleasant being on the receiving end

If we do not stand up for decency and respect and actually call out abusive behaviour when it occurs, it will just keep going.

PS 5 dimonds made doubled. I was playing it well considering I was up against experts and advanced players. So who was the idiot? Hopefully they were happy with their IMP score on that hand, albeit ungrateful and undeserving

[johnu]

Send the miscreant's user ID and other info to abuse@bridgebase.com

Are you sure you weren't playing with a GIB? 3♥ is a ridiculous bid that would be ordinary for GIB and anybody who bids like that needs to take 100% of the blame for any bad results.

[pilowsky]

Well, I used to play with a Trump supporter. When I told him how somebody once said to me that I was a f**kwit he asked me: "were you?" - That was a short-lived partnership. Book him Danno!

[AL78]

Unfortunately there are some who have never been called out on poor behaviour, and I think that years/decades of getting away with it builds up an entitlement to continue getting away with it. If you call them out at this stage, you just get a load of abuse back. Online interaction gives those with little concept or care of social interaction and boundaries to vent their true personality at others, which they otherwise have to hide behind a thin veneer of forced civility, because they won't get their face smashed in from the safety of a keyboard and anonymity. That is why very heated and abusive arguments exist on forums across the web, because the perpetrators can do it without consequence. It isn't helped by the fact that some people seem to think that freedom of speech means freedom from consequences of that speech (i.e. abuse of the term).

All you can do is report it, there is a good chance the perpetrator is being abusive to others as well, and enough reports have a chance of getting his account terminated. Either he learns his lesson or self justifies and creates a new account. If the latter you can only hope he mouths off to the wrong person verbally.

pilowsky, on 2020-October-08, 04:13, said:

Well, I used to play with a Trump supporter. When I told him how somebody once said to me that I was a f**kwit he asked me: "were you?" - That was a short-lived partnership. Book him Danno!

I would have phrased the question rather more tactfully than that e.g. What was the provocation for the abuse?

[pilowsky]

AL78, on 2020-October-08, 04:32, said:

Unfortunately there are some who have never been called out on poor behaviour, and I think that years/decades of getting away with it builds up an entitlement to continue getting away with it. If you call them out at this stage, you just get a load of abuse back. Online interaction gives those with little concept or care of social interaction and boundaries to vent their true personality at others, which they otherwise have to hide behind a thin veneer of forced civility, because they won't get their face smashed in from the safety of a keyboard and anonymity. That is why very heated and abusive arguments exist on forums across the web, because the perpetrators can do it without consequence. It isn't helped by the fact that some people seem to think that freedom of speech means freedom from consequences of that speech (i.e. abuse of the term).

All you can do is report it, there is a good chance the perpetrator is being abusive to others as well, and enough reports have a chance of getting his account terminated. Either he learns his lesson or self justifies and creates a new account. If the latter you can only hope he mouths off to the wrong person verbally.



I would have phrased the question rather more tactfully than that e.g. What was the provocation for the abuse?

Seriously? When did you stop beating your wife?

[nige1]

charliejef "you hold 10xx,KJxxxx,x,10xx, Game all. First in hand with a new partner whose limited system details says weak NT and strong 2s. You pass and hear 3D on your left. 3H says pard, 5D on your right. It's not a bidding challenge question ,but what do you bid? They misdefend and we get out for menus 800 (they make 5D as a point of information). I received a torrent of abuse from partner, including imbecile and idiot. He said he would be leaving the table as he did not wish to play any more with such an idiot. Having left the table, ten minutes or so later he then sent me a private message on lines of "have you made any more 4point bids,you idiot." I have been playing bridge for nearly 60 years and understand that there are a few not so pleasant people around.Personally,his remarks do not upset me but it is not within the spirit of the game.OK,my bid may well have been gross but there is still a standard of decent manners to follow. Any views?"
++++++++++++++++++++++
IMO:
1. You should use the hand editor (♠ symbol) to post deals.
2. Partner's 3♥ bid is peculiar
3. Your 5♥ bid seems sensible
4. Personal abuse is inexcusable.
5. You should report alleged offensive behaviour to BBO, rather than post here.

---

[AL78]

pilowsky, on 2020-October-08, 04:42, said:

Seriously? When did you stop beating your wife?

I don't have a wife, so the question is impossible.

My question is not loaded. Very few people call someone a f**kwit out of the blue, so it is not unreasonable to enquire what you think the reason was. I have in no way implied the reason was justified and it was your own fault. If it was an irrational spontaneous outburst then fair enough.

[pilowsky]

AL78, on 2020-October-08, 15:51, said:

I don't have a wife, so the question is impossible.

My question is not loaded. Very few people call someone a f**kwit out of the blue, so it is not unreasonable to enquire what you think the reason was. I have in no way implied the reason was justified and it was your own fault. If it was an irrational spontaneous outburst then fair enough.

There are some people in Australia that use the term F**kwit as part of normal conversation. After Australia won the America's Cup Bob Hawke the Prime Minister remarked: "Any boss who sacks anyone for not turning up today is a bum". I was once ticked off as unfriendly for not calling someone a "Bastard". "Bloody" is a normal part of Australian discourse, but in some areas, the slightest curse word will cause offence and accusations of sexism and bullying.


Context is everything - I agree.
Still, when I go to a Bridge centre and some bozo that I've never met before doesn't like the cut of my gib and takes umbrage about my bidding and/or card play, then I don't think he's entitled to call me a f**kwit. No, I think people that do that are useless d**kheads - and that's putting it mildly. I mean, we may not be there to F@@k spiders, but J%%%%s C^^^%ST, wtf. My response is not to launch into a string of invective, childish abuse or physical assault, that would be pathetic. I use humour, I dissimulate, and if that doesn't work I just walk away.
Does that answer your question? Does that clear things up?

[Huibertus]

Of course you report this.

Apart from that, what is 3♥? Looks to me partner found a way to see your hand and guessed 3♦ is -110 and 3 ♥ -100 and gets angry you were unaware of what's going on?

[MRTRUB44]

charliejef, on 2020-October-08, 03:12, said:

Would be interested in members’ views if there is any mileage in pursuing the issue below with BBO’s disciplinary process.
Playing in Acol Casual Bridge,you hold 10xx,KJxxxx,x,10xx,game all. First in hand with a new partner whose limited system details says weak NT and strong 2s. You pass and hear 3D on your left. 3H says pard,5D on your right. It’s not a bidding challenge question ,but what do you bid?
Rightly or wrongly you opt for 5H,back to the man on your right who doubles. AC lead and on BBO you now see your partner’s hand who is Declarer= 9xxxx,AQx,Ax,QJx.They misdefend and we get out for menus 800( they make 5D as a point of information). I received a torrent of abuse from partner,including imbecile and idiot.He said he would be leaving the table as he did not wish to play any more with such an idiot. Having left the table, ten minutes or so later he then sent me a private message on lines of “have you made any more 4point bids,you idiot.” I have been playing bridge for nearly 60 years and understand that there are a few not so pleasant people around.Personally,his remarks do not upset me but it is not within the spirit of the game.
OK,my bid may well have been gross but there is still a standard of decent manners to follow.
Any views?

There is an "avoid" option you can use to make sure you do not play again with him on a casual game. In my experience, most of the recent increase in bad behavior is lockdown related - we are also seeing increases in domestic violence, family breakups, and general rudeness outside of the bridge world. And yes, we are seeing some very stupid abuse by players who have just made a silly mistake.
Where I live, I have just been given permission (by our government) to spend two hours a day outside my apartment, after months on a single hour. While I am old enough to be over the temper tantrums of youth, I understand where they are coming from right now.
Stay well, take care, and we will be over this whole epidemic some time, hopefully soon.

[AL78]

pilowsky, on 2020-October-08, 18:47, said:

There are some people in Australia that use the term F**kwit as part of normal conversation. After Australia won the America's Cup Bob Hawke the Prime Minister remarked: "Any boss who sacks anyone for not turning up today is a bum". I was once ticked off as unfriendly for not calling someone a "Bastard". "Bloody" is a normal part of Australian discourse, but in some areas, the slightest curse word will cause offence and accusations of sexism and bullying.


Context is everything - I agree.
Still, when I go to a Bridge centre and some bozo that I've never met before doesn't like the cut of my gib and takes umbrage about my bidding and/or card play, then I don't think he's entitled to call me a f**kwit. No, I think people that do that are useless d**kheads - and that's putting it mildly. I mean, we may not be there to F@@k spiders, but J%%%%s C^^^%ST, wtf. My response is not to launch into a string of invective, childish abuse or physical assault, that would be pathetic. I use humour, I dissimulate, and if that doesn't work I just walk away.
Does that answer your question? Does that clear things up?

[/size]

Yes, different countries, different ways of communicating. In the UK, calling someone a f**kwit is only done as a means of insult, I've never heard it done as light banter or normal conversation.

In the case you state, it sounds like your partner didn't like the way you bid or played, in which case calling you a f**kwit is out of order.

[pilowsky]

All of which raises another interesting question, which is: who are Bridge players?

Setting aside all of those people that are in the Bridge business, tournament Bridge players are almost all clustered around the 60-80 year age group. Walk into any Club and talk to new players, and you will get the same story;
"Hi, my name is Paul, Susan, Michelle or Andrew". Why? We were all born in the '50's and just retired. The old guard is there too.
Their names are Mary, Shirley, Charles and Larry. But if you want seriously dangerous competition then beware of pairs named Flo, Rose, Elmer or Lester. If you really want the full detail of what's behind a name, here's a great site: https://www.behindth....com/names/list
Retirees are a troublesome breed. They are prone to the same problems that any person who has lost a loved one has. After all, their entire social fabric has just been torn away from them. For the College/University educated retiree, this drop can be even more precipitous.
Instead of running a large organisation and being really useful, now they aren't.

So, that's what you find at a Bridge table, not Zia in a bow tie, or Mike Lawrence looking a bit dishevelled after meeting with his publisher hoping for a quick social game.
No, you get some vaguely disappointed POPO who's feeling a bit out of sorts and in psychological jibber-jabber has decided to 'kick the dog' and take it out on you.
Is it a capital offence or a Federal crime? Not really, they probably regret it the moment they say it. I used to get really annoyed and shocked. Now I just laugh at them and make a joke at their expense.
It's a bit like children - remember who the grown-up is when someone loses control of their frontal lobes.
Obviously, I take it on a case by case basis, and I'm feeling pretty mellow ATM. Still, a significant advantage of online Bridge is that I don't have to put up with it FTF.

[RD350LC]

AL78, on 2020-October-08, 04:32, said:

Unfortunately there are some who have never been called out on poor behaviour, and I think that years/decades of getting away with it builds up an entitlement to continue getting away with it. If you call them out at this stage, you just get a load of abuse back. Online interaction gives those with little concept or care of social interaction and boundaries to vent their true personality at others, which they otherwise have to hide behind a thin veneer of forced civility, because they won't get their face smashed in from the safety of a keyboard and anonymity. That is why very heated and abusive arguments exist on forums across the web, because the perpetrators can do it without consequence. It isn't helped by the fact that some people seem to think that freedom of speech means freedom from consequences of that speech (i.e. abuse of the term).

All you can do is report it, there is a good chance the perpetrator is being abusive to others as well, and enough reports have a chance of getting his account terminated. Either he learns his lesson or self justifies and creates a new account. If the latter you can only hope he mouths off to the wrong person verbally.

Yes, bbo does have a policy requiring people here to be polite. I am sure that the person who started bbo, Fred Gitelman, would have had something to do with this.
Where Fred had started playing was in southern Ontario, and that is where the ACBL policy of zero tolerance originated. With this policy, I agree.
When partner makes an obviously idiotic bid or play, I come out with some humourous saying. These include
1. Nice compression play (unsaid is that he compressed 10 tricks into 8, for example).
2. When did you learn to play? I know it was today, but what time today?
Sometimes, I do the silent routine. I then pass whenever it is my turn to bid-regardless of my hand or the auction. I start out by saying that I will not bid again-and then do nothing but pass. Usually, this is enough to get a person to leave.

[smerriman]

RD350LC, on 2020-October-09, 15:07, said:

I then pass whenever it is my turn to bid-regardless of my hand or the auction. I start out by saying that I will not bid again-and then do nothing but pass.

This is deplorable behavior. You're not only ruining the game for your two opponents, but every single other table who get dealt that hand. With the small number of times a hand gets dealt, one idiot who bids 7NT or passes with strong hands has a significant impact on the scores, and is just as bad if not worse than the person who was impolite.

[miamijd]

johnu, on 2020-October-08, 03:43, said:

Send the miscreant's user ID and other info to abuse@bridgebase.com

Are you sure you weren't playing with a GIB? 3♥ is a ridiculous bid that would be ordinary for GIB and anybody who bids like that needs to take 100% of the blame for any bad results.

It's high time someone stood up for the GIB bots. They are the target of more abuse than Trump and Biden put together. And really, what did a GIB bot ever do to you? Hmm?

No self-respecting GIB bot would EVER overcall 3H on AQx.

Cheers,
Mike

[miamijd]

charliejef, on 2020-October-08, 03:12, said:

Would be interested in members’ views if there is any mileage in pursuing the issue below with BBO’s disciplinary process.
Playing in Acol Casual Bridge,you hold 10xx,KJxxxx,x,10xx,game all. First in hand with a new partner whose limited system details says weak NT and strong 2s. You pass and hear 3D on your left. 3H says pard,5D on your right. It’s not a bidding challenge question ,but what do you bid?
Rightly or wrongly you opt for 5H,back to the man on your right who doubles. AC lead and on BBO you now see your partner’s hand who is Declarer= 9xxxx,AQx,Ax,QJx.They misdefend and we get out for menus 800( they make 5D as a point of information). I received a torrent of abuse from partner,including imbecile and idiot.He said he would be leaving the table as he did not wish to play any more with such an idiot. Having left the table, ten minutes or so later he then sent me a private message on lines of “have you made any more 4point bids,you idiot.” I have been playing bridge for nearly 60 years and understand that there are a few not so pleasant people around.Personally,his remarks do not upset me but it is not within the spirit of the game.
OK,my bid may well have been gross but there is still a standard of decent manners to follow.
Any views?

Your partner's behavior is abusive. People who act that way detract from others' enjoyment of the game. In the USA, we have zero tolerance for that sort of thing. You should report him to BBO.

Cheers,
Mike

[dsLawsd]

Play only with people you "know" with convention cards similar to yours. I choose not to play on BBO at all, but would in an all expert game or if
looking for a permanent partner.
Just like wearing a mask hides expressions, here the computer does it. At least in a money game you cut around and can leave whenever. Earning the coin of the realm is a good incentive...
Back in the 90s we had fun and met some great people on-line. Not so much right now

[johnu]

miamijd, on 2020-October-09, 16:55, said:

No self-respecting GIB bot would EVER overcall 3H on AQx.

I checked and "R-e-s-p-e-c-t" is not in GIB's vocabulary