Watch Anonymously Thanks - 'Watch Anonymously' is turned off
#1
Posted 2020-August-01, 07:47
Thanks for turning it off again!
#2
Posted 2020-August-02, 15:48
scarletv, on 2020-August-01, 07:47, said:
Thanks for turning it off again!
I didn't know it existed, but I agree that it should not.
#3
Posted 2020-August-02, 16:47
#4
Posted 2020-August-03, 05:16
However if they are going to cheat to win at any cost by logging in twice
Well unless we know for sure (and i am sure we all have our suspicions) not a lot we can do about it
especially when they can play and kibbitz the same hand at another table in the competition
#5
Posted 2020-August-03, 06:25
johnu, on 2020-August-02, 16:47, said:
It does matter, because if they create another identity it leaves a record that can provide evidence.
London UK
#6
Posted 2020-August-03, 10:22
gordontd, on 2020-August-03, 06:25, said:
That is quite correct.
However someone has got to be very very suspicious to ask BBO to look at it, but even if they have done that, does it prove that they have "cheated"?
Personally if I ever felt I had to "cheat" I would just give up playing Bridge.
#7
Posted 2020-August-03, 12:39
gordontd, on 2020-August-03, 06:25, said:
How would BBO know who created a new ID? You create another email which is also very simple to do and create another BBO ID. How does BBO know who created that ID?
Ohhh, BBO does know which IP address the users are logging in from, so if they are on the same network, then you are pretty sure it is from the the same network. But that is true whether or not you are using an anonymous ID, or just another random ID that you already created. So it really doesn't make much difference whether you are using an anonymous ID.
So, if you log in from a 2nd account using different VPN's and from different VPN servers, you can hide your actual IP address. Now there is no direct evidence but only circumstantial evidence that you consistently have anonymous kibitizers rather than specific kibitzers when playing some matches. That makes it a little harder but not that much more difficult to find self-kibitzers. I think most users aren't that sophisticated, but the solution isn't to ban anonymous kibitzers but to ban all kibitzers, or at least put in a time delay so kibitzers can't influence the play.
#8
Posted 2020-August-03, 15:22
johnu, on 2020-August-03, 12:39, said:
Ohhh, BBO does know which IP address the users are logging in from, so if they are on the same network, then you are pretty sure it is from the the same network. But that is true whether or not you are using an anonymous ID, or just another random ID that you already created. So it really doesn't make much difference whether you are using an anonymous ID.
So, if you log in from a 2nd account using different VPN's and from different VPN servers, you can hide your actual IP address. Now there is no direct evidence but only circumstantial evidence that you consistently have anonymous kibitizers rather than specific kibitzers when playing some matches. That makes it a little harder but not that much more difficult to find self-kibitzers. I think most users aren't that sophisticated, but the solution isn't to ban anonymous kibitzers but to ban all kibitzers, or at least put in a time delay so kibitzers can't influence the play.
As you say most users aren't that sophisticated, yet then you assume they are (creating multiple email accounts, using VPN).
I agree with your conclusion however, no kibitzing except with time delay is the way to go.
#9
Posted 2020-August-03, 15:42
johnu, on 2020-August-03, 12:39, said:
Ohhh, BBO does know which IP address the users are logging in from, so if they are on the same network, then you are pretty sure it is from the the same network. But that is true whether or not you are using an anonymous ID, or just another random ID that you already created. So it really doesn't make much difference whether you are using an anonymous ID.
So, if you log in from a 2nd account using different VPN's and from different VPN servers, you can hide your actual IP address. Now there is no direct evidence but only circumstantial evidence that you consistently have anonymous kibitizers rather than specific kibitzers when playing some matches. That makes it a little harder but not that much more difficult to find self-kibitzers. I think most users aren't that sophisticated, but the solution isn't to ban anonymous kibitzers but to ban all kibitzers, or at least put in a time delay so kibitzers can't influence the play.
This is not entirely correct, but I'm not going to go into more details in case it helps any self-kibitzers.
London UK
#10
Posted 2020-August-04, 00:16
pescetom, on 2020-August-03, 15:22, said:
I agree with your conclusion however, no kibitzing except with time delay is the way to go.
I'm assuming that a number of players caught cheating by self-kibitzing were easy to catch because they signed in with multiple accounts from the same internet connection.
#11
Posted 2020-August-04, 00:22
gordontd, on 2020-August-03, 15:42, said:
I know it's not entirely complete, but using VPNs or other misdirection services have been mentioned in a number of other articles about cheating so I don't think just this information will really help somebody who wants to cheat.
#12
Posted 2020-August-04, 11:23
I'm also assuming that some that were caught were caught by being internet-innocent. I'm doing my best to not think about how I would be less innocent; in my Real Job, I have to not only be above board, but look above board. I take that to my bridge playing as well.
#13
Posted 2020-August-05, 15:48
Assuming staff may need this feature, maybe I see that, but why the great unwashed masses need the facility escapes me. All it’s ever done is cause issues for me....
#14
Posted 2020-August-05, 16:52
It was also intended as a way to allow newcomers to take a look around without actually creating a username before they decide whether they want to log in or not.
It's a good feature, but given that there won't be many real vugraphs for a while we decided to turn it off. If / when it will be reactivated it will probably be only for vugraph.
#15
Posted 2020-August-06, 01:02
diana_eva, on 2020-August-05, 16:52, said:
It was also intended as a way to allow newcomers to take a look around without actually creating a username before they decide whether they want to log in or not.
It's a good feature, but given that there won't be many real vugraphs for a while we decided to turn it off. If / when it will be reactivated it will probably be only for vugraph.
Excellent decision!
London UK
#16
Posted 2020-August-06, 10:08
Sometimes I just want to push some cards, without dealing with Hello/looking for a team game/whatever. Maybe I'm going to go through a tunnel soon, or it's 3 hands in the ride home, or waiting for my dinner companions to show up.
Yes, it's great to see both tables of a vugraph match, but until they can resolve stuff so that safe vugraph can happen without twitch, that's a no-go.
#17
Posted 2020-August-07, 01:39
I can see a need for anonymous play, for vulnerable persons to play for example and as is mentioned above for newcomers to look around.
I was really meaning ‘invisable’ log on. This has sinister potential and I’m not clear what the benefit of this option is.
I occasionally check results or history on an iPhone, I find it really difficult to deal with incoming messages then so I have used the setting to log on to avoid that. But if it helped to cut down sinister opportunities i’d certainly be willing for the option to disappear.
#19
Posted 2020-August-08, 07:46
I believe that any good reasons for allowing anonymous kibbing is far outweighed by all the bad reasons. Also, I would go further and enable the host to eject kibbers; the Host can eject players why not kibbers?