[Cyberyeti]

dsLawsd, on 2018-May-17, 03:08, said:

Both should bid 4S. Otherwise a negative double with such poor suits seems wrong at the 4 level.

I'd love to see the post mortem when S bid 4♠ and N had KQxxx, AKxxx, x, xx, 4♠ went off, 4♥ was cold when preempter had x, x, Jxx, AKxxxxxx

[Tramticket]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-May-17, 05:36, said:

I'd love to see the post mortem when S bid 4♠ and N had KQxxx, AKxxx, x, xx, 4♠ went off, 4♥ was cold when preempter had x, x, Jxx, AKxxxxxx

Too many K♠'s - but I agree with the point.

[gszes]

msjennifer, on 2018-May-17, 01:14, said:

Almost all players play negative double up to 3S only unless previously discussed.Personally I would bid 4S ,which many will consider absurd, with the South hand.Unless previously discussed 4Cx Is a penalty double.

I have to admit that I have seen no player that uses neg x BELOW (a max of) 4h in a longgggg time. The rationale for using neg x through 7h is quite strong (though so rare it does bring utility into question vs other far more common uses).

Having to bid 4s with this hand should give you good reason to pause and reconsider how high you want to play neg x:)

[gszes]

gszes, on 2018-May-17, 07:26, said:

I have to admit that I have seen no player that uses neg x BELOW (a max of) 4h in a longgggg time. The rationale for using neg x through 7h is quite strong (though so rare it does bring utility into question vs other far more common uses).

Having to bid 4s (as responder) with this hand should give you good reason to pause and reconsider how high you want to play neg x:)

[FelicityR]

I think that if you make a negative double at the four level in this type of auction you should have a tiny bit of tolerance for partner's opening suit, especially a major, so North should press on to 4♠ with the extra sixth ♠. However, I do accept that if you have a 0553 hand you really do not have any other bid than double too.

[RD350LC]

el mister, on 2018-May-16, 05:35, said:

---

Club game matchpoints. 4♣X - 1 did not make us rich, in fact it was a cold bottom. Reasonable calls, or is there clear culpability for not bidding 4S (either N or S)?

As a lot of other people have indicated, south had a reasonable negative double, and north should have bid 4 ♠. I tend to be rather aggressive in making pre-empts, and usually they work out.
There is no perfect solution, and that is why I am aggressive in pre-empting.

[MrAce]

el mister, on 2018-May-16, 05:35, said:

---

Club game matchpoints. 4♣X - 1 did not make us rich, in fact it was a cold bottom. Reasonable calls, or is there clear culpability for not bidding 4S (either N or S)?

I think the auction you showed in diagram is VERY reasonable.

[cleveritis]

play all doubles as take out... at least through 4S, the higher the bid, the more they get left in, he has an easy 4s bid

[Caitlynne]

I think South's takeout Dbl is quite reasonable and is better than the other alternatives (4D, 4H, and 4S). But with Ax of clubs, North should know that 4C is not off much and that partner is quite unlikely to be short in spades. I would rebid 4S with the North hand. Remember, takeout Doubles should generally be taken out whenever you have any reasonable action to remove it. Rebidding a good 6 card spade suit is a VERY reasonable action to take out the Double. North gets 100% of the blame for this one.

[msjennifer]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-May-17, 02:59, said:

You seem to have no comprehension of what goes on outside your immediate circle, negative to 7♥ is not uncommon, negative to at least 4♥ is normal here.

Sir,kindly read my statement in full context.I have written that ,” Unless previously discussed” 4Cx is a penalty double as one has already specified in his convention card that mention “upto 3S” under the column “negative doubles”.I know that Larry Cohen has advised negative doubles “ upto infinity”.I was referring to “ non expert “ players who will certainly be flabbergasted to know “upto infinity”.One gets a different partner every two deals and it is in their profiles negative double is played upto 2/3 Spade only and it is not at all wrong to conclude that 4Cx is a penalty double.Whenever not able to do that they simply PASS hoping that partner may make a TOD.It is for these reasons that I have said I shall bid 4S with the South hand.And believe me ,I never consider myself as an EXPERT.Compared to Benito and Hamman I may fall only in the intermediates class only.I sincerely hope that you will appreciate my comments in light of this.

[msjennifer]

In the SAYC system which is used by most on BBO,it is clearly written under negative doubles,1It is used upto a level of 2repeat 2spades.2) It CAN be played at higher levels also.3)The higher level upto which it is played is decided by previous agreement.4)All the comments which I express or the opinions I give are normally adhering to the SAYC System.

[ahydra]

It's useful to make a distinction between negative doubles and, erm, negative doubles. It's very common to play takeout up to 4H/whatever, but only promise the other major to 2S, which might be where the SAYC definition comes from.

ahydra

[Cyberyeti]

msjennifer, on 2018-May-17, 23:22, said:

Sir,kindly read my statement in full context.I have written that ,” Unless previously discussed” 4Cx is a penalty double as one has already specified in his convention card that mention “upto 3S” under the column “negative doubles”.I know that Larry Cohen has advised negative doubles “ upto infinity”.I was referring to “ non expert “ players who will certainly be flabbergasted to know “upto infinity”.One gets a different partner every two deals and it is in their profiles negative double is played upto 2/3 Spade only and it is not at all wrong to conclude that 4Cx is a penalty double.Whenever not able to do that they simply PASS hoping that partner may make a TOD.It is for these reasons that I have said I shall bid 4S with the South hand.And believe me ,I never consider myself as an EXPERT.Compared to Benito and Hamman I may fall only in the intermediates class only.I sincerely hope that you will appreciate my comments in light of this.

Unless previously discussed where you are maybe it's to 3♠, here I would guess it's 4♥ and not be surprised if I played with somebody who thought 1♠-5♣-X was takeout undiscussed

[pes_6]

S 4 ♥ instead x because have two ♠s and escape suit ♦s if partner need it, after it N bid 4♠.