[lamford]

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IMP pairs. Lead 4♥.

You survive the first hurdle when East wins the ace of hearts and switches to the four of diamonds, so the hearts are clearly 6-1. You survive the second hurdle when your jack holds. You carefully lead a club to the nine, but East gives it a brief look and (seemingly) ducks. Can you survive the third hurdle?

[wanoff]

I would guess not, unless you're willing to take the spade finesse.
Misplayed at trick 2.

[lamford]

wanoff, on 2017-July-24, 04:03, said:

I would guess not, unless you're willing to take the spade finesse.
Misplayed at trick 2.

Not so. The play at trick two was correct.

[Tramticket]

There are two possibilities:
- Ace then queen of clubs works if the clubs are 3-2.
- The spade finesse works if east has the queen.

If East has ducked, it is because he has four and wants you to play AQ♣ or he has three clubs and wants you to take the spade finesse???

[lamford]

Tramticket, on 2017-July-24, 04:47, said:

There are two possibilities:
- Ace then queen of clubs works if the clubs are 3-2.
- The spade finesse works if east has the queen.

If East has ducked, it is because he has four and wants you to play AQ♣ or he has three clubs and wants you to take the spade finesse???

Indeed, you have considered the options, but you are missing an important point.

[Cyberyeti]

Unless E has 5 spades or W has a guarded Q, spades from the top will also work giving extra chances when W has Q/Qx.

[lamford]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-July-24, 05:13, said:

Unless E has 5 spades or W has a guarded Q, spades from the top will also work giving extra chances when W has Q/Qx.

I don't think so. East will possibly win the third spade and exit with a low diamond. You will go off when East has Qxxx A Axxx Jxxx for example.

[The_Badger]

My way of playing it would have been different. Second trick taken by ♦K, small ♠ to the ♠A followed by a ♣ to the 9 in dummy (East gives it a brief look and seemingly ducks again.) Then bash out ♣AQ followed by a ♠ to the K and ♠J. Nine tricks (3♣, 2♦ and 4♠) when ♠4-2 and it avoids the ♠ finesse, and also caters for East attempting some sort of pseudo-Grosvenor.

[Cyberyeti]

lamford, on 2017-July-24, 05:21, said:

I don't think so. East will possibly win the third spade and exit with a low diamond. You will go off when East has Qxxx A Axxx Jxxx for example.

I forgot I rather stupidly blocked the diamonds, I'd have won on table with ♦K, played a spade to the A then played a club to the 9 if I was going to play this line so the next diamond was always won in hand.

I could also have discarded K♦ on the third spade.

[lamford]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-July-24, 05:38, said:

I forgot I rather stupidly blocked the diamonds, I'd have won on table with ♦K, played a spade to the A then played a club to the 9 if I was going to play this line so the next diamond was always won in hand.

I could also have discarded K♦ on the third spade.

If you discard the king of diamonds on third spade, East wins and this time exits with a low club and you go off again when East is Qxxx A Axxx Jxxx.

[lamford]

The_Badger, on 2017-July-24, 05:37, said:

My way of playing it would have been different. Second trick taken by ♦K, small ♠ to the ♠A followed by a ♣ to the 9 in dummy (East gives it a brief look and seemingly ducks again.) Then bash out ♣AQ followed by a ♠ to the K and ♠J. Nine tricks (3♣, 2♦ and 4♠) when ♠4-2 and it avoids the ♠ finesse, and also caters for East attempting some sort of pseudo-Grosvenor.

I thought of that line, but it fails when East has Qxxxx A Axx Jxxx. You do, as you say, need to test the clubs as they may be 3-2 with the queen of spades wrong. I cashed my two club winners and now finessed the spade, and was fine as long as the queen of spades was on my right which it is 4-3 on to be. I could cash a top spade and discover if they were 5-1 or 4-2. They were the latter, so I played three more rounds discarding the king of diamonds on the last of these and I was home. If they had been 1-5, I would have been able to endplay East in spades, by exiting with a small diamond and then later a small spade. I would have lost out to Qx of spades with West, of course.

I also think it gives the game away to win with the king of diamonds, cross to a top spade and finesse the club. It makes it much easier to duck the club, even with Jxx, and as far as I can see there is no gain.

[Cyberyeti]

lamford, on 2017-July-24, 05:58, said:

If you discard the king of diamonds on third spade, East wins and this time exits with a low club and you go off again when East is Qxxx A Axxx Jxxx.

No you don't, you overtake, cash a third club and play a diamond, defence gets a trick in each suit.

[lamford]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-July-24, 07:29, said:

No you don't, you overtake, cash a third club and play a diamond, defence gets a trick in each suit.

We are talking about your proposed discard of the king of diamonds on the third spade. There is no diamond in dummy to play. After you have won the diamond in hand at trick two, and played a club to the nine which holds, two top spades are now fatal. You can play one top spade, overtake the club and finesse a spade and that gets you home.

[Cyberyeti]

lamford, on 2017-July-24, 07:50, said:

We are talking about your proposed discard of the king of diamonds on the third spade. There is no diamond in dummy to play. After you have won the diamond in hand at trick two, and played a club to the nine which holds, two top spades are now fatal. You can play one top spade, overtake the club and finesse a spade and that gets you home.

OK, if I was going to play spades from the top, I have to win the first diamond on the table, which was my inital inclination anyway. Doesn't actually matter if I win with 9 or K as I CAN discard K if I have QJ left and exit a club off table in the line that is problematic here.

[lamford]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-July-24, 10:11, said:

OK, if I was going to play spades from the top, I have to win the first diamond on the table, which was my inital inclination anyway. Doesn't actually matter if I win with 9 or K as I CAN discard K if I have QJ left and exit a club off table in the line that is problematic here.

The point is that if you win the first diamond in dummy (with either card) and cross to hand with a top spade and finesse the club which holds and come back to hand with another top spade you don't know yet if the clubs have broken and if you now test them you are in the wrong hand. If instead you cash two more clubs, finding they were 4-1, and play a spade to the king or ace, you are off if the spades are 5-1. I think, however, the main gain is not telling East that you have the ace and king of spades, which makes it a lot easier to duck the club. The diamond blockage does not cause a problem.

[nige1]

You can use this to confirm your analysis, at double dummy

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[Cyberyeti]

lamford, on 2017-July-24, 12:39, said:

The point is that if you win the first diamond in dummy (with either card) and cross to hand with a top spade and finesse the club which holds and come back to hand with another top spade you don't know yet if the clubs have broken and if you now test them you are in the wrong hand. If instead you cash two more clubs, finding they were 4-1, and play a spade to the king or ace, you are off if the spades are 5-1. I think, however, the main gain is not telling East that you have the ace and king of spades, which makes it a lot easier to duck the club. The diamond blockage does not cause a problem.

I think it's a lot easier to duck this with Jxxx, you are going to feel a complete moron ducking with Jxx if partner has Kx which is surely not impossible (yes he should play the K but people don't).

So how do I lose out if I win K♦ spade to the ace, club to the 9, 2 more clubs, spade to the K, J♠. Do we really think W has 2 black stiffs ? E is out of exits and has to play diamonds and let me cash my winners.

[lamford]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-July-24, 13:12, said:

I think it's a lot easier to duck this with Jxxx, you are going to feel a complete moron ducking with Jxx if partner has Kx which is surely not impossible (yes he should play the K but people don't).

So how do I lose out if I win K♦ spade to the ace, club to the 9, 2 more clubs, spade to the K, J♠. Do we really think W has 2 black stiffs ? E is out of exits and has to play diamonds and let me cash my winners.

East should indeed know that South has Kx of clubs when he has Jxxx, as South is unlikely to open 1NT with a singleton, but will not know that when he has Jxx. This is the expert section, so West really should play the king from Kx (even if South still has a heart stop). Declarer should still duck of course.

How do you gain by winning the second diamond in dummy is more to the point? You lose when West is x KQxxxx xxxxx x (yes I think West should bid on that, but many would not over a strong NT) but more relevantly, you do not lose as far as I can see. You also help East if you play a spade to the ace or king as you must surely have the other one. The less East knows about the hand the more he has the chance to go wrong. Both lines will often work of course.

[Cyberyeti]

lamford, on 2017-July-24, 16:55, said:

East should indeed know that South has Kx of clubs when he has Jxxx, as South is unlikely to open 1NT with a singleton, but will not know that when he has Jxx. This is the expert section, so West really should play the king from Kx (even if South still has a heart stop). Declarer should still duck of course.

How do you gain by winning the second diamond in dummy is more to the point? You lose when West is x KQxxxx xxxxx x (yes I think West should bid on that, but many would not over a strong NT) but more relevantly, you do not lose as far as I can see. You also help East if you play a spade to the ace or king as you must surely have the other one. The less East knows about the hand the more he has the chance to go wrong. Both lines will often work of course.

I'm not sure what line you're comparing this with in the "How do you gain" remark.

My worry is Qx, KQxxxx, xxxx, x for the finessing lines which I think is much more likely than the 6-5.

[PhilG007]

[quote name='lamford' timestamp='1500885298' post='928589']

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IMP pairs. Lead 4♥.

You survive the first hurdle when East wins the ace of hearts and switches to the four of diamonds, so the hearts are clearly 6-1. You survive the second hurdle when your jack holds. You carefully lead a club to the nine, but East gives it a brief look and (seemingly) ducks. Can you survive the third hurdle?
[/quo

A very lucky lie of the cards