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Goddam preempts

#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2017-February-15, 17:08



Now what?

Answer separately for IMPs and MPs if it makes a difference.
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#2 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2017-February-15, 22:10

I looked at your footer and realized that in this case 1D was a transfer to 4S :P

I have a five loser hand opposite an opener so LTC implies slam which will help me justify my 5H bid when it doesn't make :D In any event it should be a good save.

I choose 5H rather than 5D because I want partner to use heart length in his decision on whether to compete/save over 5S or 6S.
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#3 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2017-February-15, 23:05

Playing your methods, 4N looks kind of obvious to me.
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#4 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2017-February-16, 00:57

View PostJinksy, on 2017-February-15, 17:08, said:



Now what?

Answer separately for IMPs and MPs if it makes a difference.


Agree with Phii:
  • 4N = ART. Describes hand well.
  • 5 = NAT. Partner guarantees 4 s and will usually have more.
  • 5 = NAT. At MPs, prefer this to 5

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#5 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2017-February-16, 16:22

View PostPhil, on 2017-February-15, 23:05, said:

Playing your methods, 4N looks kind of obvious to me.


4N as in two places? What do you do over partner's various responses?
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#6 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-February-17, 01:44

View PostJinksy, on 2017-February-16, 16:22, said:

4N as in two places? What do you do over partner's various responses?


Correct to 5 if he bids 5 and pass if he bids 5
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#7 User is offline   MinorKid 

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Posted 2017-March-01, 07:31

The overcall is too heavy, can't explore slam for me.
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#8 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2017-March-01, 12:49

View PostMrAce, on 2017-February-17, 01:44, said:

Correct to 5 if he bids 5 and pass if he bids 5


Why not just bid 5 directly? Surely we're happy with our 9-card fit - and given that the lead might make a difference of several tricks, I would want to tell the opps as little as possible about the hand.
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Posted 2017-March-01, 13:14

6 I'm cornered so come out swinging.
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#10 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-March-02, 02:19

View PostJinksy, on 2017-March-01, 12:49, said:

Why not just bid 5 directly? Surely we're happy with our 9-card fit - and given that the lead might make a difference of several tricks, I would want to tell the opps as little as possible about the hand.


Because it helps pd to know whether you raised diamonds with something like

x
xxxx
QJxxxx
xx

or with a hand like in OP. He may need this information especially if they bid 5 over your 5.

I am actually very surprised that you asked this question. When someone bids 4 red vs white + you are short in their suit + you have 4 card fit to opener + 6 card solid side suit, bidding just 5 would be one of the most cowardly actions possible next to pass in my eye.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#11 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2017-March-02, 03:58

I'd double. P is unbal. That normally means a singleton. If it's in hearts we should defend. If it's in spades he'll bid.
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#12 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2017-March-02, 16:24

View PostMrAce, on 2017-March-02, 02:19, said:

Because it helps pd to know whether you raised diamonds with something like

x
xxxx
QJxxxx
xx

or with a hand like in OP. He may need this information especially if they bid 5 over your 5.

I am actually very surprised that you asked this question. When someone bids 4 red vs white + you are short in their suit + you have 4 card fit to opener + 6 card solid side suit, bidding just 5 would be one of the most cowardly actions possible next to pass in my eye.


Well yeah, my eventual 'solution' at the table was to blast 6, hoping we'd get it on the lead if it wasn't there naturally. It 'worked', in that 6 was cold... but P raised me to 7 and watched them cash their ace before claiming 14 tricks :unsure:
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#13 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-March-02, 16:57

View Postwank, on 2017-March-02, 03:58, said:

I'd double. P is unbal. That normally means a singleton. If it's in hearts we should defend. If it's in spades he'll bid.


Nay, that is a pretty bad plan unless you are playing against complete morons and their moronic preempts at these colors.




or even worse





When your pd decides to pass or bid depending on his and shortness as you expect him to, which is not even remotely the reality imo, you are not doing good as I showed but you have other problems too with DBL. Such as pd bidding on with both minors and you having to correct to 5 which he will never have a clue whether you preferred diamonds or you are holding the gem you have.

Worst of all, you are talking as if it is clear for pd to bid on over 4 with shortness and not necessarily length


"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#14 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2017-March-03, 20:12

View PostMrAce, on 2017-March-02, 02:19, said:

I am actually very surprised that you asked this question. When someone bids 4 red vs white + you are short in their suit + you have 4 card fit to opener + 6 card solid side suit, bidding just 5 would be one of the most cowardly actions possible next to pass in my eye.


So I'm not really sure what 4N is doing here - if you're going to pass P's 5 (which is surely a pretty encouraging response - suggesting he either has extra diamonds or something in hearts?), what have you gained? And if over his 5 you bid 5, you're showing the red suits, but are you really showing slam interest? Wouldn't you have to bid that on something like xx KQJxx Qxx xx (or if not that, move one of the black pips in with hearts), to try and ensure you reach your 9-card fit?
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#15 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-March-03, 21:42

View PostJinksy, on 2017-March-03, 20:12, said:

So I'm not really sure what 4N is doing here - if you're going to pass P's 5 (which is surely a pretty encouraging response - suggesting he either has extra diamonds or something in hearts?), what have you gained? And if over his 5 you bid 5, you're showing the red suits, but are you really showing slam interest? Wouldn't you have to bid that on something like xx KQJxx Qxx xx (or if not that, move one of the black pips in with hearts), to try and ensure you reach your 9-card fit?


What you seem to not understand is that you think you are the one who should decide what to play and what not.
After high preempts like this there is no such luxury but you can

A-Tell your pd that you are bidding 5 with a good hand and encouraging him (as oppose to he encouraging you or discouraging you) for slam IF HE HAS A GOOD HAND too.


B- Tell your pd that you are bidding 5 with no intention whatsoever for slam. (through 4 NT or vice versa)

Your pd then have a clue, not a huge one but still, whether your 5 has some life or made just for save or to play there. What you gain is simple, if you do not differentiate the way you reach to 5, pd will NEVER have a clue, regardless of this clue helping him or not, that whether you are landing on 5 with total junk or constructive hand.

Which part of this simple concept became so hard to understand for you misses me by a 100 light year distance!

And in which part of my comments have I said anything about 4 NT showing red suits? You are a smart man, I think all of this confusion you are having is because you assumed that I advocated 4 NT to be showing red suits. Which I did not. You could have done the same thing with clubs on the side or simply no side, it pretty much says you have fit and/or you have a suit to bid after 4 NT which indicates stronger/weaker(your choice) of a direct bid over 4 .
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#16 User is offline   MinorKid 

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Posted 2017-March-23, 03:46

4NT RKC Blackwood (D) :P (Junior Level)
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