[Charlie Yu]

gszes, on 2015-December-14, 16:15, said:

enthusiastic eh? hmmm would QJxx KQJx AJx QJx be enthusiastic? Not in my book, what is there to be enthusiastic about? If all p wanted to was if we were max and they could have merely invited us to bid 3n. So enthusiastic should mean a hand with controls a dia fit and chances at 3n or slammish if p wishes. ANYTHING that comes close to that description should make a small slam a virtual lay down so the real question should be how close to bidding a grand are we and how can we explore if we feel it is needed?

The !CA !DA (!HK or !CK) put us at 11 tricks and we have used 11 of our enthusiastic p 15-17. We still have 4-6 hcp to spare. My feeling is a 7d bid should be the best guess here since we can make 13 if p happens to have 5 clubs or Kx in hearts (or numerous other holdings that will allow us to make 7n) and this should be the best spot either MP or IMPS since getting to 7 on around 32 hcp will usually be a great score no matter the form of scoring. If I had the tools needed to find out if p had club length or 2 hearts I would go that route but w/o some sophisticated asking bids I go with what appears to be the most likely road to success.

If p has ♣QJx, I don't see opps leading ♣s very often.

[lycier]

Charlie Yu, on 2015-December-15, 18:26, said:

If p has ♣QJx, I don't see opps leading ♣s very often.

What you said really isn't the reasons to bid slam,your basic attitude is not correct.

[Caitlynne]

I don't know, given those methods, diamonds has been agreed (unless you follow with 3NT or a quantitative 4NT), so why not start cue bidding with 3H. You know partner can't cue bid spades, and you are looking for a 4C cue bid. If you get it, you can temporize with 4D to see if partner can bid 4H to show you the King of hearts. If partner does bid 4H, you have an easy 4S. If partner does something encouraging (e.g., 4NT which should NOT be Blackwood after all these cue bids or 5C, you have another spade cue bid available to try for a grand. Anyway, that would be my "undiscussed but standard" approach.

[Caitlynne]

I don't know, given those methods, diamonds has been agreed (unless you follow with 3NT or a quantitative 4NT), so why not start cue bidding with 3H. You know partner can't cue bid spades, and you are looking for a 4C cue bid. If you get it, you can temporize with 4D to see if partner can bid 4H to show you the King of hearts. If partner does bid 4H, you have an easy 4S. If partner does something encouraging (e.g., 4NT which should NOT be Blackwood after all these cue bids or 5C, you have another spade cue bid available to try for a grand. Anyway, that would be my "undiscussed but standard" approach.

[Caitlynne]

I don't know, given those methods, diamonds has been agreed (unless you follow with 3NT or a quantitative 4NT), so why not start cue bidding with 3H. You know partner can't cue bid spades, and you are looking for a 4C cue bid. If you get it, you can temporize with 4D to see if partner can bid 4H to show you the King of hearts. If partner does bid 4H, you have an easy 4S. If partner does something encouraging (e.g., 4NT which should NOT be Blackwood after all these cue bids or 5C, you have another spade cue bid available to try for a grand. Anyway, that would be my "undiscussed but standard" approach.

[lycier]

BillHiggin, on 2015-December-15, 14:49, said:

I really appreciate all the replies!
The actual situation was probably beyond any reasonable solution by normal agreements (i.e. does opener have the right major suit queen?).

Actual hands (true spot cards this time):

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You said " i.e. does opener have the right major suit queen? "
Yes, let's make some analysis.
After 3♣ , 3♥=cuebid up-the-line,responder has not promised any stopper in ♠,opener should rebid 3nt to show a stopper in ♠,then responder should know opener has ♠Q !
After 6♣ invitation,7♦ is a reasonable judgment.

[Left2Right]

Bill: You are not alone. A couple of years ago I wrote via e-mail to a lady player of international repute (one of those with a BBO star by her name) asking how she and her best partner, another star-boaster, would approach exactly this challenge.

To my great surprise, she replied that the two of them had not even discussed it, let alone reached an agreement. (They have now.)

In honor of this common problem, I have added yet one more BBO constraint file to my public stash so you can test whichever method you have in mind. You'll find it at
http://www.charlesan...onstraints.html (SCROLL DOWN on the page.)

[PhantomSac]

If you are able to keycard via 4D or 4H and your partner shows 2 keycards your next bid should be to show the SK rather than ask for kings. Then you will have shown your whole hand minus what your 3 card suit is (which admittedly can sometimes be an issue). LOL example and all but QJxxx of spades and the minor suit aces = a grand. On the other hand partner can have both of the other kings and we still need a trick. Knowing how many kings partner has is not what we need to know, he will be much better placed if he knows we have 6 diamonds to the KQ, the HA, and the SAK.

Example auction: 4H RKC, 2 5C w/o, 5S I have the SK.

[lycier]

Whatever it is minorwood or redwood,both don't resolve controls clearly in the side suits at the same time since this is not a simple problem on RKCB.
If it is playable for what you said,you are difficult to find 7♦/7nt.