[Andy43210]

You have:
Qx
AKx
Kxxx
Qxxx

Playing 2/1 gf, opps silent throughout.
Partner opens 1D, you bid 2D (inverted minor raise).
Partner continues 3C, you bid 3H.
Now partner bids 5C.

What does it mean and what do you bid?

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[Cyberyeti]

Depends on what your style is for 3♠ over 3♥, whether that shows or asks for spade cards.

[dboxley]

5D, I've shown my hand, the CQ is a nice card but how can I bid more with no spade control? Why didn't pd just bid 4C? There must be a reason but I don't what it is.

[Andy43210]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-September-09, 14:07, said:

Depends on what your style is for 3♠ over 3♥, whether that shows or asks for spade cards.

I'd guess opener would bid 3N with nothing interesting and a S stopper.
But there was no agreement on 3S. So it is possible opener may have avoided 3S because of that.

[Andy43210]

dboxley, on 2015-September-10, 13:35, said:

5D, I've shown my hand, the CQ is a nice card but how can I bid more with no spade control? Why didn't pd just bid 4C? There must be a reason but I don't what it is.

Is it reasonable for opener to show a good 5-5 this way by jumping to 5C?
Further, by not directly bidding 5D, S control is implied?

[mike777]

MUCH prefer to bid 4c over 3c

I assume 2d or 3h by me was not gf

4c over 3c must be gf.

given OP I guess 5d now.

[m1cha]

Over inverted minors, to me 2NT and 3 of the suit (bid at any time) can be passed. Anything beyond is forcing to game, 4 of the suit is Minorwood (unless the hand has been limited previously). So if 3♣ is not yet forcing to game, 3♥ is. Then if someone wastes all the space up to 5♣ and has nothing interesting to tell, it must deny slam interest (unless it is a special agreement), might hold ♠xx opposite my apparently missing ♠ stop. If I knew partner had a habit of opening 1♦ with 4-5 in ♦-♣, I would assume this is the hand, otherwise 5-5. With a random partner I would always correct 5♣ to 5♦ just in case the 5♣ bid is something different.

Something else strikes me here: Isn't it better to bid 2♣ with the S hand rather than 2♦? Because opener's rebids after 2♣ are more informative. I will probably hear the ♦ length immediately or the strength of the hand. I can still end up in 3NT or a reasonable level of ♦.

[kenrexford]

This seems so obvious. Probable 2155 with at best Jx in clubs, catering to a diamond raise with longer clubs.

[cheers OvO]

Yes 3C told you 4+C and so 5C told you 5+C for you to choose 5C or 5D to play. But that's a selfish way because he didn't know how about your spades. Maybe you would get a slam with a void？Why not ask for spade control or asking for keys？Your partner seemed not to know cooperation. He didn't know how good your hand would be just after invm but stop at 5-level just because he had no interest in slams. One with a nice hand playing invm tries to test how strong the opener is while your p was playing his own bridge.
Anyway, the opposite hand seemed not so strong and so did yours. Stop at 5D for a safe game. Notice that the opener was stronger at diamonds or he would open 1C.

[Zelandakh]

cheers OvO, on 2015-September-19, 09:30, said:

Yes 3C told you 4+C

Did it? What would you have chosen with ♠xx ♥xx ♦KQJxxx ♣AKQ? It is certainly possible to play that 3♣ promises 4 but my guess is that that is not the most common agreement.

[Vampyr]

Zelandakh, on 2015-September-21, 02:30, said:

Did it? What would you have chosen with ♠xx ♥xx ♦KQJxxx ♣AKQ? It is certainly possible to play that 3♣ promises 4 but my guess is that that is not the most common agreement.

Unless you have some kind of gadget. I like to play that the next step is an unbalanced GF.

LOL you probably have something very inventive here!

[Zelandakh]

Vampyr, on 2015-September-21, 10:50, said:

Unless you have some kind of gadget. I like to play that the next step is an unbalanced GF.

LOL you probably have something very inventive here!

Not really to be honest. My current favourite got posted recently in another thread and is similar to your idea but in reverse - the first step shows a balanced hand. The reason I prefer it this way round is that Responder can often make the decision to go to NT knowing a balanced hand is opposite without giving any further information away whereas further investigation is often warranted opposite an unbalanced hand. It is not one of my ideas though, I just stole it from something I read.

[Vampyr]

Zelandakh, on 2015-September-21, 11:41, said:

Not really to be honest. My current favourite got posted recently in another thread and is similar to your idea but in reverse - the first step shows a balanced hand. The reason I prefer it this way round is that Responder can often make the decision to go to NT knowing a balanced hand is opposite without giving any further information away whereas further investigation is often warranted opposite an unbalanced hand. It is not one of my ideas though, I just stole it from something I read.

We just use 2NT as a balanced hand. This is of course in a weak NT context.

[nige1]

Andy43210 says "You have: ♠ Q x ♥ A K x ♦ K x x x ♣ Q x x x
Playing 2/1 gf, opps silent throughout.Partner opens 1D, you bid 2D (inverted minor raise). Partner continues 3C, you bid 3H. Now partner bids 5C. What does it mean and what do you bid?"


IMO, over 3♥, 3N would be natural, 3♠ would show interest in notrump but lack of a full ♠ stop.
Hence 5♣ might be a picture bid e.g. ♠ x x ♥ - ♦ A Q J x x ♣ A K J x x x. with slam interest but pin-pointing lack of ♠ control.

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[gszes]

None of the suggested answers are far off but a variety of opener/responder hands types are needed to show the different cases. First thing is to realize that opener does not know what the meaning of 3h is. Even though it is almost always (I'm sure I can come up with an exception if I think about it) either a cue bid for slam or merely a heart stop with a spade problem for nt. The problem is that opener must assume the weaker unless further advised. 3c while creating enough to force to 3n does NOT promise enough to go to 5m (it just plain takes almost an ace more to make 5m vs 3N or 4M). That means if responder is minimal opener need a place to go when they are also minimum and have no spade control. The only spaces left are 4c and 4d(saved for 1 suited hands). 4c would presumably be an attempt to show extra distribution 5/5 5/6 65 with no spade control and min xx void AQxxxx Axxxx xx x Axxxx AKxxx in fact ne can even make a case to include hands (with some extra values) with 3 small spades since it is quite plausible to lose 3 spades off the top given the bidding xxx x AQJxx AKJx (this hand can qualify for a 3h - over 2d- if the partnership is willing to risk 3n with no spade stop). That means the 5 level must be for hands with extra values just in case responder is minimum for their previous bidding. It does not mean 5 will always make opposite a min responder but most of the time play should be decent but a key component of the 5 level bids are a lack of spade control for slam purposes.

[TomReynold]

With a Spade control and slam interest opener should bid 4S: 1D-2D-3C(natural)-3H(stopper showing-4S (Slam try Spade control).

[Zelandakh]

TomReynold, on 2015-September-24, 18:25, said:

With a Spade control and slam interest opener should bid 4S: 1D-2D-3C(natural)-3H(stopper showing-4S (Slam try Spade control).

As above, would you be absolutely certain that 3♣ showed a real suit with a pick-up partner? What would you bid with the hand (2263 with xx in both majors) I posted earlier?

[TomReynold]

Zelandakh, on 2015-September-25, 02:16, said:

As above, would you be absolutely certain that 3♣ showed a real suit with a pick-up partner? What would you bid with the hand (2263 with xx in both majors) I posted earlier?

I would bid 3C (presumably natural) showing a stopper, then 3S asking for a stopper. I would pass 3NT. If I had a spade control and slam interest, I would not pass 3NT and 4C would confirm a second suit.

Tom

PS: I might add that I really try to void playing with a pickup partner. My system (Mavarako)runs 100 pages so only those serious about playing with me are interested.

[Zelandakh]

TomReynold, on 2015-September-26, 17:14, said:

I would bid 3C (presumably natural) showing a stopper,

Either it is natural or it shows a stopper. Most would assume the latter without any explicit agreement, hence the question. As it happens my system document is also well over 100 pages but that did not stop us from playing it for fun rather than seriously. Note also that a longer set of system notes does not necessarily make for a better system. I am quite sure that many of the posters here would play at a much higher standard than either of us with 2 pages of system.

[dboxley]

nige1, on 2015-September-21, 13:39, said:

Andy43210 says "You have: ♠ Q x ♥ A K x ♦ K x x x ♣ Q x x x
Playing 2/1 gf, opps silent throughout.Partner opens 1D, you bid 2D (inverted minor raise). Partner continues 3C, you bid 3H. Now partner bids 5C. What does it mean and what do you bid?"


IMO, over 3♥, 3N would be natural, 3♠ would show interest in notrump but lack of a full ♠ stop.
Hence 5♣ might be a picture bid e.g. ♠ x x ♥ - ♦ A Q J x x ♣ A K J x x x. with slam interest but pin-pointing lack of ♠ control.

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Wouldn't you open 1C with that hand?