[Fluffy]

---

[mr1303]

There has to be a case for 3NT here surely.

[PhilKing]

I think 3NT is right, and here's why:

1. I think partner has a balanced hand with only four spades. He can't have five spades and enough for three spades, since then he would have overcalled. Facing a protective double, he surely needs about 12 points to bid 3♠, yet he did not double 1♦. Therefore he is something like 4324 or 4333 or even 4324.

2. The opposing hearts are probably 4-4. Players strain to respond light when they have a five card major. If hearts are 5-3 here, I expect righty to have a virtual yarborough. so Qxx in hearts is enough to stop the suit for sure.

3. Diamond ruffs are going to sink 4♠ lot of the time, but 3NT should be a breeze.

[rhm]

One of my pet ideas is that when the bidding starts

1X Pass Pass DBL


one should play transfer responses to the balancing takeout DBL.

Rainer Herrmann

[gszes]

3n

partners failure to overcall and subsequent 3s bid seems to indicate possession of a really ratty 5 card suit and around 8 hcp I am hoping for something like Q6543 AQ 543 432. With any luck whatsoever we should walk away with 4s (starting with low toward the Q) 2h 2c 1d. I fear 4s will far too often be set with an opening dia lead. Does this type of hand make you secretly wish your side was playing transfers over 3d i.e. 3d x = 3h bid 3h = 3s bid?

[BillPatch]

gszes, on 2015-September-02, 05:20, said:

3n

partners failure to overcall and subsequent 3s bid seems to indicate possession of a really ratty 5 card suit and around 8 hcp I am hoping for something like Q6543 AQ 543 432. With any luck whatsoever we should walk away with 4s (starting with low toward the Q) 2h 2c 1d. I fear 4s will far too often be set with an opening dia lead. Does this type of hand make you secretly wish your side was playing transfers over 3d i.e. 3d x = 3h bid 3h = 3s bid?

If opener had passed according to the rule of a queen popularized by Root and Pavlichek. Modern Bridge Conventions. advancer's jump would 12 to 14 declarer's points. I thought this was fairly standard. Except with a 12, even a terrible 5 card suit would rate to have been an overcall, so I expect a four card spade suit in partner's hand. I see no reason to adjust my expected strength down due to the fact he made a free bid.

[eagles123]

I don't understand 3N at all, our double doesn't even promise 4 spades yet partner leaps in spades, and I'm guessing its IMPS so its not like overtricks matter too much.

[Cyberyeti]

eagles123, on 2015-September-02, 12:58, said:

I don't understand 3N at all, our double doesn't even promise 4 spades yet partner leaps in spades, and I'm guessing its IMPS so its not like overtricks matter too much.

The danger is partner has 3 diamonds and 4♠ goes off via ruff(s) while 3N is solid

[PhilKing]

eagles123, on 2015-September-02, 12:58, said:

I don't understand 3N at all, our double doesn't even promise 4 spades yet partner leaps in spades, and I'm guessing its IMPS so its not like overtricks matter too much.

I am expecting an overtrick, but that is not the point.

A likely construction is partner with KQxx KJx xxx Qxx, where we lose the first 4 tricks in 4♠ but make an easy 10 in 3NT. The lack of overcall, LHOs rebid of 2♦ and the jump to 3♠ enable us to triangulate this one without extra-curricular use of the bidding tray. With righty marked with a yarborough, I can't think of many reasonable constructions where 3NT goes off and 4♠ makes - the raisers have simply dropped the ball.

[cherdano]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-September-02, 14:46, said:

The danger is partner has 3 diamonds and 4♠ goes off via ruff(s) while 3N is solid

Even two diamonds means they get a trump trick if partner's trumps are KQxx.

[phil_20686]

PhilKing, on 2015-September-02, 01:38, said:

I think 3NT is right, and here's why:

1. I think partner has a balanced hand with only four spades. He can't have five spades and enough for three spades, since then he would have overcalled. Facing a protective double, he surely needs about 12 points to bid 3♠, yet he did not double 1♦. Therefore he is something like 4324 or 4333 or even 4324.

Um isn't it routine here for partner to have a weak hand with 6 spades too weak for a one level over call? T9xxxx Axx xx xx or something? Admittedly that makes constructing the e-w hands a little problematic, at least in my style of one level overcalls, but not impossible. In that case it isn't hard to make hands with 4S a claimer and 3N off.

You have a 'free bid' opposite a double in protective seat, so isn't 2S showing 7-11 (borrowed K theory essentially) and better than that you bid 3d when you are balanced? If partner wants you to compete with less than that he just has to double 2d again when it comes back to him.

[MrAce]

I do not get the pass. My first thought was 4♠, forgot pd passed over 1♦

[jdonn]

I also don't understand pass even being an option. I like the arguments by those who bid 3NT, I'm sold.

[toucanish]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-September-02, 14:46, said:

The danger is partner has 3 diamonds and 4♠ goes off via ruff(s) while 3N is solid

I think west would have bid 3♦, not 2, with seven of them.

[Fluffy]

On this hand in theory pass is best, but in practice 3NT scored a top after a passive lead and easy endplay. Anyway partner had no 3♠ bid and RHO had no pass either so reality is probably worth nothing.

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[phil_20686]

Fluffy, on 2015-September-11, 03:09, said:

On this hand in theory pass is best, but in practice 3NT scored a top after a passive lead and easy endplay. Anyway partner had no 3♠ bid and RHO had no pass either so reality is probably worth nothing.

---

What do you think a 3S bid should look like here fluffy?

While I see the logic of other Phil's reasoning, I cannot imagine myself ever bidding 3S here with only 4 spades.

[MrAce]

Fluffy, on 2015-September-11, 03:09, said:

On this hand in theory pass is best, but in practice 3NT scored a top after a passive lead and easy endplay. Anyway partner had no 3♠ bid and RHO had no pass either so reality is probably worth nothing.

No,passing 3♠ would be even worse than 3♠ bid and/or pass by E.

You are balancing and could be as weak as 9 hcp. And your pd who could bid 2♠ with a non minimum hand or shape due to it being a free bid, jumps to 3♠ and you have 16. I would bet my paycheck that what you think best in theory, actually is not even an option.

I wish all 3 NTs I play had such a good chance of making. It is cold on any lead if S decides to play opener for KQ ♠. I admit this is far from obvious though.
Otoh 3♠ has no play whatsoever regardless of who holds ♥A.

[Fluffy]

phil_20686, on 2015-September-11, 04:04, said:

What do you think a 3S bid should look like here fluffy?

While I see the logic of other Phil's reasoning, I cannot imagine myself ever bidding 3S here with only 4 spades.

You have denied 5♠ and invitatioanl values when you pased 1♦.

Its not that 3♠ is hopeless, but ask yourself what 3♦ would show.

[nige1]

phil_20686, on 2015-September-11, 04:04, said:

What do you think a 3S bid should look like here fluffy?While I see the logic of other Phil's reasoning, I cannot imagine myself ever bidding 3S here with only 4 spades.

Agree. Much prefer 3♦ to 3♠. Fluffy, are you sure that East passed 1♦?

[Fluffy]

Yes he passed, he is a young BIL, he didn't listen when I explained to him why it was wrong but rather told to me about point count or something. You won't read from him on the papers this decade I guess.