[dickiegera]

---

2♦ shows no Ace and possibly one king.

3♠ was meant to show a good 6 card suit.


Thank you

[mike777]

P=2c
2d=2s
3c=3s
4s=?

seems like a good start


2d=random a or k. gf
3c=natural

[wank]

sadly the actual bidding is novice class. a method where a 2C opener needs to jump to show a good suit is bankrupt. south assuredly doesn't have a good suit. north didn't seem to notice he had a 9 count opposite a 2C opener. he should be almost driving slam. oh and ace showing responses to 2C are woefully bad.

2c-2d-2s-3c-3nt-5s-6s would be a simple natural auction

[MrAce]

dickiegera, on 2015-June-08, 20:53, said:

3♠ was meant to show a good 6 card suit.


Thank you

2♠ does not deny 6th spade. Starting auction at 2 level already has its own problems, jumping all over the place with a non solid suit and particularly with a balanced hand like this one is awful imo.
Jump actually sets trump and tells pd not to worry about finding a fit and asks others things of your choice.

Having said this and done, I think N should not stop anywhere before slam, after 2♣ and knowing pd has 6 spades.

[lycier]

3♠ was meant to show a good 6 card suit？
For me,3♠ is meant to show a solid 6-card suit at least,maybe with a big hand,and it is usually meant to force to 4♠ and set ♠ as trump to explore potential slam.

[mcphee]

For me, this seems to be a problem of what a 2C opening shows. This one barely makes the grade with 8 1/2 playing tricks (should we have favorable S division, after all partner my be short of S and our suit is not exactly great facing the 2 of S). Another point worth considering is when partner opens 2C and bids a major they often have a 6 card suit. Take away a S and make it a D and you hold a completly different hand which may well have opened 2N.

This is a nice hand however and lets not lose any sleep about bidding 2C. While your intentions might be to show a strong suit, the real facts are you happen to have a dead minimum 2C bid and jumping should no fall into the logical rebid group.

With the auction you started, no one really gained information. If 3S intends to set trump, responder should clearly bid 4C wit such a nice source of tricks and that Q of trumps.

Definition of a BIG hand, I have game all by myself, got something to show me?
Definition of a maybe big hand,,,,,,,,,,,,hmmmm, maybe you better not show me something?

[Cyberyeti]

mcphee says more or less what I wanted to say.

To me this is not a 2♣ opener playing the style where 2♣ is GF unless followed by 2N.

A 2♠ rebid is either a 6 card suit or 5 with a side 4 as 5332 rebids 2N.

Your suit is not that great, if partner has xx, xx, QJxx, KQJxx you want to be in 6♣, but this is tough to do once you bid 3♠.

[billw55]

I am interested in what you mean when you say "3♠ was meant to show a good 6 card suit". Does it mean:

1. this was an actual agreement with this partner, or
2. you made up this meaning on your own and hoped partner would understand?

That's a big difference.

In any case, partner evidently had a different understanding of what 2♣ meant, so you probably were not getting past 4♠ with him anyway.

[mycroft]

• I would argue the 2♣ call as well; it's a bare minimum. Lots of Aces and Kings, but no texture and minimal shape for a 6-card suit. But "two queens make game" as long as they're not the ♣Q, so I won't say it's *wrong*; just arguable.
  
• 2♦ controls is system; whether it's a good system or not I won't argue. It's much better than Point steps.
  
• 3♠ should show *at least* AKQTxx; most likely AKJTxxx. 3♠ says "we're playing spades. If it's right, we can convert to NT. But I don't care what you have, we can and will play in spades." So I'd bid 2♠.
  
• after 2♣-2♦; 2♠-3♣; opener should bid 3♠ (which should be passable - "a bid and rebid suit" - if partner really has dreck).
  
• after either that auction or the one in the OP, responder has a *huge* hand in context. She's promised no aces, and at most one king. She has that king, it's in a 5-card suit and married to the Q, she has Qx of trumps (and that's better after my auction than after 2♣-2♦; 3♠, where she would expect to be just removing the potential finesse/drop question), and another card! She has to tell her partner she doesn't have dreck, and doesn't even have "good dreck".
  
• I'd assume that 4♣ is a cue for spades (rather than no, my suit is better than yours), but that's dangerous. Obviously, even if you only do first-round controls first, this still shows the K as responder has already denied the A. If opener might not take it that way, however, responder has to do something that shows spades and a maximum. I hate 4NT by the weak hand, but maybe you have to do it. I hate it even more, but even 6♠ is better than 4♠.
  
• Simon in Why You Lose At Bridge says that non-experts tend to overbid their good hands, and underbid their bad ones. This auction is a prime example. There's no way that opener can know that responder doesn't have two queens and out - and 4 may be the limit, especially as he's shown a much better hand than he has. Responder knows that, but "I don't have an ace, and I don't have great spades" - yeah, but partner *knows that already*.

[wank]

mycroft, on 2015-June-09, 11:26, said:

[*]after 2♣-2♦; 2♠-3♣; opener should bid 3♠ (which should be passable).

why would anyone want to play a part score after opening 2c (ok, 2c-2d-2nt or kokish equivalent)? if you play 3s as nf, i presume you never get dealt game forcing single suiters.

[mycroft]

1) here, 2♦ is the immediate negative (0-1 control). So there's no "Kokish Equivalent". Unless you're going to make your 2♣ "some strong balanced or GF", there has to be a "22 opposite misfitting 1" get out. If 2♣ is "GF or some balanced", then you can't open this hand 2♣.
2) 2♣-2♦; 3♠ shows the GF self-supporting suit type (as described above). 2♣-2♦; 2♠-something; something not 3♠-whatever; 3♠ is the "fake reverse" single-suiter that sets the GF, and offers a choice (even if you may have to bid at the 4 level on the third round).

This may not be the best system - frankly, I'm quite certain it's not the best system - but "after 2♣ and a clear minimum response, 2NT can be passed, and a suit that has been naturally bid and rebid (not bid and raised) can be passed below game. Otherwise it's GF", along with "Two Queens or a King is a game force" has the cachet of being traditional.

[monikrazy]

4S is a criminal underbid. Lacking other other methods, immediately keycarding after 3s would be fine.


Like some other posters, I prefer 2S to 3S by opener, but it shouldn't have impeded reaching the slam here.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I am not arguing about 2C, and similar I am not arguing about 3S, that is the agreement
set you had at the table.
What did North show? Nothing, he denied controls, ok, but he showed at most 1 trick,
and this assumes, that 2C was not already gf.
So North has to find another bid other than raising partners suit to game, 4C is certainly
a option that comes to mind, so are 5S, or even 6S.
6S ... opener heard responder saying: I dont have lots of controls, and opener still goes
looking, i.e. opener is not worried about a lack of controls, opener also saw responder
passing, ask your self, what does a max. control poor passed hand look like?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Lovera]

Once existed, on 2♣ and 2♦(=minus 7 points MW) Blackwood conv. variated so: 0A and 0K=5♣, 1K=5♦, 2K=5♥, 1A=5♠, 1A and 1Q=5NT and ultherior roll Blackwood asking are about Queen number. So in this case 4NT-5♦=1K, 5♥(=roll Blw-?Q)-6♦(=3 Queens)..