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Opening a 22pt hand at the four level

#1 User is offline   ezyang 

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Posted 2015-May-20, 10:34



Your call? (IMPs)
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#2 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2015-May-20, 10:59

4♠. Who knows? Maybe we can't beat 4♥. Maybe we can make 9-13 tricks in spades.

Realistically, we know that whatever action we take is going to be the final contract (unless we double and partner has a very long suit and pulls). I would expect to make 4♠ opposite almost any hand that partner tables. So that is my call.



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#3 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2015-May-20, 11:42

For me double of 4♥ is still takeout so I would double. I would raise 4♠ and 5♦ to 6 and bid 5♠ over 5♣.

If 4♥ penaltyish. Then hopefully you have 4N as takeout and would do the same thing as after a double.

Bidding at this level is a guess whatever you do could be right or wrong.



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#4 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2015-May-20, 11:54

 steve2005, on 2015-May-20, 11:42, said:

Bidding at this level is a guess whatever you do could be right or wrong turn out well for you, or not.

FYP. :P
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#5 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2015-May-20, 12:05

I just bid 4♠ and suspect that pard has little to help.
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#6 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2015-May-20, 12:53

*awaits phil g saying its a wtp pass*
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#7 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2015-May-20, 16:50

4 ♠! It's likely the opponents have taken a sac, but you can't be absolutely sure. But holding ♥ Ax, it's very likely partner has some ♠s and can ruff your ♥ loser. Slam may be there or not, but there's no practical way to find out. So take the most likely positive result.
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#8 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2015-May-20, 19:47

If this were MP I could be convinced x was the way to go. This is IMPS and while I might win at least some MP for setting 4hx I lose mucho IMPS if we make 4S. That means we sort of have to accept the opps transfer to 4S as a form of insurance. I would be much happier playing 5hx than 4hx. No logical method to search for and no reason to assume we can make slam so we do the best we can.
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#9 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2015-May-20, 21:12

I feel that high level doubles should be mostlty for the same level suits especially at imps.

(4D)--X--(P)--??

i feel that playing a style where the X doesnt promise clubs is sensible. 5521,5422,5431,4621,4612 etc. IMO you can double with 46 as long as partner bid 4H with 3S/3H.

After 4H i feel the same way I think 4S or pass should represent at least 95% of partner responses, he should bid 4NT/5m with a 7 card suit or 55.

Ive been playing like this for a quite a while with medium success. We avoid some pretty horrible 5m contracts but sometimes its 4 double making.

I think it will take some time before we finetune the right middle ground between values and how many spades we should hold.

Its really somehting that i would like to sim to know if its a good method or not.
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#10 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2015-May-20, 23:48

 ezyang, on 2015-May-20, 10:34, said:



Your call? (IMPs)


Pass Anyone tacking action on this hand at that level should be recommended to
a good psychiatrist..(!) <_<. Another difficult lesson to learn.. accepting when you've been
outgunned and going quietly...
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster

Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)


"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
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#11 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-May-21, 03:46

 PhilG007, on 2015-May-20, 23:48, said:

Pass Anyone tacking action on this hand at that level should be recommended to
a good psychiatrist..(!) Posted Image. Another difficult lesson to learn.. accepting when you've been
outgunned and going quietly...


It's called being preempted, not outgunned. None of your opps has shown points so far, all they have shown is a fit.

#12 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2015-May-21, 05:44

I rate failing to bid 4S slightly lower than bonkers. No point in the BIL mentor seeing a shrink, he is obviously past any help.
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#13 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2015-May-21, 05:50

I tend to double more than most here, and would do so here. I don't think it's a WTP by any means, but 4S just feels too unilateral. I would not be surprised if we only took it for 500 with 4S making though.
Wayne Somerville
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#14 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2015-May-21, 07:20

This is a real good hand with 4 losers,in the face of 4♥,of course,making double is the preferred option because 4♥ give us more leeway.(Assume facing up to 4♠,there is no leeway.)
Its following is I will regarded as two suiters of ♦ and ♠,even with 4-card ♦. I also think other description may be worse.
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#15 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2015-May-21, 09:12

I try to recall good advice in these situations, and this hand brings to mind the admonition to stop once there are no tools left to make an intelligent inquiry. I bid 4S.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#16 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-May-21, 09:28

I really like double. If partner passes, I am hopeful of 800, and if he pulls to anything but 5♣, I like our chances in slam.
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#17 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2015-May-21, 09:42

 cherdano, on 2015-May-21, 09:28, said:

I really like double. If partner passes, I am hopeful of 800, and if he pulls to anything but 5♣, I like our chances in slam.

A discussion of what sorts of hands partner is expected to pull with would probably be more interesting than the question of what to bid with the strong hand.
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
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#18 User is offline   case_no_6 

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Posted 2015-May-21, 10:16

4S. Is there anything else that is remotely sane?

By the way, you can't open this 22 HCP hand. The opponent bid first and the first to bid is the Opener. You have to OVERCALL.
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#19 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-May-21, 10:19

 case_no_6, on 2015-May-21, 10:16, said:

4S. Is there anything else that is remotely sane?

...


Yes. Double is a reasonable option. I personally would double, but I get these doubles wrong too many times, so I refrained from arguing in favor of X because I do not know what's best.

If it were such a clear call, the hand wouldn't have been posted at all.

#20 User is offline   ezyang 

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Posted 2015-May-21, 10:26

On the actual table, your partner held:

Qxxx x Tx QJxxxx

Slam works on a (working) finesse.
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