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Any one play penalties here? After balancing double and opener repeats a suit

#1 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2015-February-01, 00:51

We had this auction:

1♦ P P Dbl
2♦ ?

Does anyone play penalties here?

What about if opener jumps to 3♦?
Wayne Burrows

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Posted 2015-February-01, 01:08

View PostCascade, on 2015-February-01, 00:51, said:

We had this auction:
1♦ P P Dbl
2♦ ?
Does anyone play penalties here?
What about if opener jumps to 3♦?
IMO after 2♦ and 3♦, both doubles are penalty (unless you agree otherwise).
Guthrie.tech
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#3 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2015-February-01, 02:25

Does anyone play penalties here?

Yes, lots of people do. I don't.

What about if opener jumps to 3♦?

I suspect that even more people would play penalties here, but they're wrong. Suppose that you have a hand that wants to bid game but doesn't know where to play. After 2♦ you can cue-bid, but after 3♦ you're completely stuffed unless you have a double available.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2015-February-01, 02:30

FWIW GIB plays both as penalty:







Edit: explanation for the X, both of 2♦ and of 3♦ says: 4- ♥; 4- ♠; 12+ HCP; biddable ♦; 16- total points

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Posted 2015-February-01, 03:10

Rebid of same suit in front of me..unsupported. My double is penalty whether Partner has doubled, passed, bid a suit, or whatever.

Stubborn about this, my mind is made up; don't confuse me with logic.
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Posted 2015-February-01, 04:57

According to Robson/Segal, they are both take out dbls.

There isn't much of a difference between 2 and 3♦. Opposite a passed responder, opener can take liberties with minimum hands if he's got extra shape.
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#7 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-February-04, 16:35

I think the "standard" meaning is penalty, in the sense that this is what experts expect without discussion.
I do think responsive is better, and it may be "standard" in the sense that this is what the majority of expert partnerships play who have discussed it.
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