[WesleyC]

Comfortably ahead in an IMP knock-out match, your opponents are swinging and reach this very dubious 3NT contract.

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Playing UDCA signals and Attitude leads, West leads the ♦2. How should the rest of the hand be defended?

[beatrix45]

Nice problem. Looking at all four hands, I would cash the ♥ ace and seeing partner's card continue with the ♦ appropriate to show count. Not at all sure I would have found it at the table.

[whereagles]

One of the standard defence methods would call for a return of the ♦3 (original 4th best). Not easy for West to figure out who's got the ♦Q, so there's quite a chance to go wrong. Cashing the heart ace beforehand can avoid this, but then West still has to guess which red suit to go back to after he's in with the ♥K. Lots of scope for a mix-up here.


Other defence methods call for a return of the ♦8, after which it's a bit easier to stay away from the disastrous diamond continuation. But it's still far from certain that stuff gets cashed in the right order.

P.S. I might have led the heart king (lol).

[TylerE]

A diamond continuation isn't disastrous - the defense still has 5 tricks available.

[mikeh]

Playing attitude leads, if East holds AQxx in diamonds, he ought to play the Q at trick one, since the low spot lead promises interest in the suit, hence a better suit that Jxxx(x)(x).

One could argue that East can win the A and then return the Q, but if the layout were K10xx opposite AQxxx with declarer holding J9xx, the Q back at trick 2 would be sub-optimal With AQxx, either of A then Q or Q then A is ok, with AQxxx, either of A then low or Q then low is ok

Thus if East returns a low diamond, West knows that the diamonds aren't running.

He ought therefore to be able to figure out the heart switch, since there is no spade holding for East that can beat the contract (had East held AK of spades, he should cash the K before returning to diamonds).

On a slightly more advanced level, altho irrelevant on the hand, East has 2 diamond spots left when West cashes his diamond K: the 8 and the 5. He can give suit preference here. Indeed, it would be silly not to, but many players aren't aware of the possibility of doing so.

Note that declarer can try to muddy the waters by playing the Q at trick 2, and the 10 under the J, but East has given count so West won't be fooled.

Btw, the notion of returning the 8 at trick 2 seems wrong. A109x, the 10 is right, but from Axxx, the key is to give count so that partner knows what is going on in the suit. The only time one would deviate from this, without an honour, is when one is concerned about blocking the suit, and with A853 there is zero risk of that.

[PhantomSac]

It's not 100 % to play back a heart because south could have something like Axx AQx QT9x Jxx where a spade would be necessary but it def seems percentage to play a heart. There is always going to be guesswork in spots like this since partner has not had a chance to signal other than the diamond count (which as mike said is necessary, west needs to know if the diamonds are running). That being said, you can try to take the highest percentage defense, much like as declarer early on you are often just making percentage plays. Better defenders can improve their chances by doing things like always playing the DQ from AQ and always playing the SK at trick two if they hold the AK of spades.

If south has the club ace, then a heart is always safe, as he has at least the SK DQ and CA, he cannot have the AQ of hearts or else he has too many points. Worst case scenario he has AJT of hearts and shoots back a heart but in that case partner has the SA so we are ok (if declarer had SA CA DQ they do not have room for AJ of hearts; too many points). I do not think west can afford to play the DK in order to get a suit preference signal as he sets up a diamond trick for declarer which is fatal when declarer has Kxx Axx QT9x Axx type of hands since it's his 9th trick before we have set up our fifth trick. I think he should just play a heart and hope for the best.

[WesleyC]

I think mikeh has hit on a key point - East's play of the ♦A at trick one should certainly deny the ♦Q.

At trick 2, cashing the ♥A might be okay (or at least helpful to partner) but there are quite a few layouts where it sets up declarer's 9th trick, or knocks out your entry before you've had a chance to play a second diamond through.

Assuming that East returns a diamond and West is on lead, they might be able to afford to cash another high diamond (for a suit preference signal), but even that isn't always safe (or possible at all if declarer has ♦QJx(xx) ).

This left me with the idea that maybe East's first diamond return should be suit preference rather than count. (With an exception of the T being for unblock on a holding like AT9x).

[mikeh]

WesleyC, on 2014-November-04, 23:36, said:

This left me with the idea that maybe East's first diamond return should be suit preference rather than count. (With an exception of the T being for unblock on a holding like AT9x).

No: count may be essential. Picture West with KJ9xxx. If we lead back the 8, he won't know if declarer has Q10xx or Q10x

In bridge, it is not usually possible to send more than one signal per play. Count is far more often critical here than is suit preference.

[WesleyC]

mikeh, on 2014-November-04, 23:38, said:

No: count may be essential. Picture West with KJ9xxx. If we lead back the 8, he won't know if declarer has Q10xx or Q10x

In bridge, it is not usually possible to send more than one signal per play. Count is far more often critical here than is suit preference.

Certainly you can't send more than one signal at a time, but top partnerships seem to do well at recognizing exceptional situations so they can cater for them.
Under the assumption that East has at least one ace then suit preference should always solve the problem. If the lead was from [xxx Qxx KJ9xx xx] or similar then it might be the only way to win.

The only hand that turn out to be a disaster is [Axx Axxx QTx Axx] where declarer has both the Qd and the Td and is about to run 9 tricks.

Anyways it's just an idea - count would certainly be the default signal.

[Fluffy]

I have seen many positions where attitude is better than cont when dummy has void, This is just another one. Also when dummy has singleton it is often worth it (Specially when partner led from 4 cards)

[whereagles]

Also, are we sure pard will play Q from ♦AQxx in a gambling auction? He might expect declarer to have 9 tricks if he makes his ♦K, and consequently may rise with the ace to shift to a major, no?

[mikeh]

whereagles, on 2014-November-05, 04:33, said:

Also, are we sure pard will play Q from ♦AQxx in a gambling auction? He might expect declarer to have 9 tricks if he makes his ♦K, and consequently may rise with the ace to shift to a major, no?

We are, if we understand our methods and are playing with a good player. However, if our partner is not expert, then we will be in doubt.

[whereagles]

mikeh: the Q is the play under normal circumstances, but this is a gambling auction, so I wouldn't be so sure that 100% of the experts would play the Q regardless. As you know, experts don't play the book card automatically. That's my point (hope I phrased it right.. lol).

[mikeh]

whereagles, on 2014-November-05, 08:40, said:

mikeh: the Q is the play under normal circumstances, but this is a gambling auction, so I wouldn't be so sure that 100% of the experts would play the Q regardless. As you know, experts don't play the book card automatically. That's my point (hope I phrased it right.. lol).

The problem here is that you think you are an expert but you don't analyze situations like an expert would. The play of the Q from AQxx is called for not by the auction but by partner's attitude lead, which promises the K. One doesn't make low card leads from J high suits playing attitude. Therefore, the Q is the correct play because of the lead. An expert would know this and wouldn't waste everyone's time rationalizing his earlier mistaken answer.

Everybody makes mistakes. Experts make fewer than most. The important point is how any of us responds to discovering that we made a mistake. Do we accept it, learn from it and become better, or do we try to justify our mistake? You were in error in suggesting winning the A. You were in error in suggesting that it was plausible to return a high spot. Why not learn something about how better players play and become one yourself?

[whereagles]

what's wrong with you?.. well, nevermind.. I'll just stop here.

[mikeh]

whereagles, on 2014-November-05, 10:01, said:

what's wrong with you?.. well, nevermind.. I'll just stop here.

How big of you

[gnasher]

whereagles, on 2014-November-05, 04:33, said:

Also, are we sure pard will play Q from ♦AQxx in a gambling auction? He might expect declarer to have 9 tricks if he makes his ♦K, and consequently may rise with the ace to shift to a major, no?

He might, but he didn't do that. He won the ace and then played another diamond. If he's planning to continue diamonds, the queen is the correct card at trick one.