[swanway]

EBU

I know this problem has been on before but I cannot remember the ruling.

Some players in our club have a habit of leaving the final contract bidding card sticking up in the bidding box to remind them of the contract being played. Is this illegal? Law 40C3a says that a player is not entitled during the auction and play periods to any aids to his memory unless permitted by the Regulating Authority. The club is a Regulating Authority so can the club allow this to happen?

[pran]

swanway, on 2014-March-20, 06:03, said:

EBU

I know this problem has been on before but I cannot remember the ruling.

Some players in our club have a habit of leaving the final contract bidding card sticking up in the bidding box to remind them of the contract being played. Is this illegal? Law 40C3a says that a player is not entitled during the auction and play periods to any aids to his memory unless permitted by the Regulating Authority. The club is a Regulating Authority so can the club allow this to happen?

Yes, it is illegal,
but Yes the Club can allow this to happen.

However, if they do then they should make it mandatory for declarer and illegal for the other three players (to eliminate any suspicion of illegal communication).

[gordontd]

swanway, on 2014-March-20, 06:03, said:

EBU

I know this problem has been on before but I cannot remember the ruling.

Some players in our club have a habit of leaving the final contract bidding card sticking up in the bidding box to remind them of the contract being played. Is this illegal? Law 40C3a says that a player is not entitled during the auction and play periods to any aids to his memory unless permitted by the Regulating Authority. The club is a Regulating Authority so can the club allow this to happen?

The EBU White Book lists the options it has chosen where they are offered, including:

(j) Under Law 40C3 (a) a player is not allowed aids to memory, calculation or technique: for example, looking at the scores on the back of bidding cards during the hand is considered an aide-memoire and therefore illegal.

[mycroft]

This is one of the ones that bugs me, but doesn't really worry me.

At one's turn to play, one can always ask what the contract is and whether it was doubled or redoubled. Having the information when it's not your turn to play doesn't seem to gain anything.

But its Wrong Wrong Wrongity Wrong, so it bothers me.

[Vampyr]

pran, on 2014-March-20, 08:20, said:

Yes, it is illegal,
but Yes the Club can allow this to happen.

However, if they do then they should make it mandatory for declarer and illegal for the other three players (to eliminate any suspicion of illegal communication).

Why mandatory for declarer? What illegal communication might she be attempting?

[pran]

Vampyr, on 2014-March-20, 12:19, said:

Why mandatory for declarer? What illegal communication might she be attempting?

Declarer: none.
Dummy and defenders: lots of.

[pran]

mycroft, on 2014-March-20, 10:23, said:

This is one of the ones that bugs me, but doesn't really worry me.

At one's turn to play, one can always ask what the contract is and whether it was doubled or redoubled. Having the information when it's not your turn to play doesn't seem to gain anything.

But its Wrong Wrong Wrongity Wrong, so it bothers me.

But not by whom the contract was doubled or redoubled.

And asking when it's not your turn to play is still another means for illegal communication. Or do you consider it acceptable to remind your partner at his turn to play that just one more trick is needed to set the contract?

[campboy]

Vampyr, on 2014-March-20, 12:19, said:

Why mandatory for declarer? What illegal communication might she be attempting?

Presumably because it would be unfair if declarer could choose whether or not to display the contract and defenders had no say in the matter.

[aguahombre]

mycroft, on 2014-March-20, 10:23, said:

At one's turn to play, one can always ask what the contract is and whether it was doubled or redoubled. Having the information when it's not your turn to play doesn't seem to gain anything.

Funny you should mention that. I thought it was true, but couldn't find it. I only found where a player may ask at his turn to play for the meaning of a specific bid (but not for a review, after having played to trick one).

[Vampyr]

campboy, on 2014-March-20, 17:14, said:

Presumably because it would be unfair if declarer could choose whether or not to display the contract and defenders had no say in the matter.

The way I have pictured it, no one else can see the front of the bidding card.

[Vampyr]

aguahombre, on 2014-March-20, 19:59, said:

Funny you should mention that. I thought it was true, but couldn't find it. I only found where a player may ask at his turn to play for the meaning of a specific bid (but not for a review, after having played to trick one).

Try 41C. I can't cut and paste it on my tablet and am too tired to type it in, but perhaps someone else might supply the text.

[aguahombre]

Yep, that's the one I referred to which allows explanations of specific bids or plays. I don't see where it allows asking what the contract is.

[Vampyr]

aguahombre, on 2014-March-20, 20:36, said:

Yep, that's the one I referred to which allows explanations of specific bids or plays. I don't see where it allows asking what the contract is.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. It's there.

[blackshoe]

Quote

Law 41C: Following this clarification period, the opening lead is faced, the play period begins irrevocably, and dummy’s hand is spread (but see Law 54A for a faced opening lead out of turn). After it is too
late to have previous calls restated (see B above), declarer or either defender, at his own* turn to play, is entitled to be informed as to what the contract is and whether, but not by whom, it was doubled or redoubled.

*Declarer may inquire at his turn to play from dummy or from his own hand.

The emphasis is mine.

[pran]

Vampyr, on 2014-March-20, 20:20, said:

campboy, on 2014-March-20, 17:14, said:

Presumably because it would be unfair if declarer could choose whether or not to display the contract and defenders had no say in the matter.

The way I have pictured it, no one else can see the front of the bidding card.

I have seen a suggestion for a regulation to such effect, it was that declarer should leave the bid card(s) showing the contract face up on the table in front of him during the play.

It never came to anything.

[aguahombre]

pran, on 2014-March-21, 00:47, said:

I have seen a suggestion for a regulation to such effect, it was that declarer should leave the bid card(s) showing the contract face up on the table in front of him during the play.

It never came to anything.

Good. We don't need another way to cause problems...For instance, the bid card might stay on the table a little too long and become a bid on the next hand. Would the Double or Redouble card be out there too? Would Declarer be able to point the tab on the bid card slightly to help him remember who competed or Doubled?

[paulg]

The regulations for the Home International Series (the next of which to appear on BBO Vugraph is the Lady Milne Trophy next month) state:

'The Match Manager or Tournament Director may instruct that the final call is displayed on the board in the centre of the table.'

Since this will always be a Pass card, perhaps I ought to change it to 'final contract'.

[pran]

pran, on 2014-March-21, 00:47, said:

I have seen a suggestion for a regulation to such effect, it was that declarer should leave the bid card(s) showing the contract face up on the table in front of him during the play.

It never came to anything.

aguahombre, on 2014-March-21, 08:17, said:

Good. We don't need another way to cause problems...

I completely agree

aguahombre, on 2014-March-21, 08:17, said:

For instance, the bid card might stay on the table a little too long and become a bid on the next hand.

That does indeed happen even today.

aguahombre, on 2014-March-21, 08:17, said:

Would the Double or Redouble card be out there too?

Sure, they are part of the contract

aguahombre, on 2014-March-21, 08:17, said:

Would Declarer be able to point the tab on the bid card slightly to help him remember who competed or Doubled?

Definitely not. Nobody is entitled to that information once it is too late to have the entire auction restated.

[Vampyr]

pran, on 2014-March-21, 13:41, said:

Definitely not. Nobody is entitled to that information once it is too late to have the entire auction restated.

What do you mean? Surely a declarer who points a bidding card a certain way is not too concerned about what information he is entitled to.

[gnasher]

pran, on 2014-March-20, 08:20, said:

However, if they do then they should make it mandatory for declarer and illegal for the other three players (to eliminate any suspicion of illegal communication).

If people want to communicate illegally, they have many of ways to do so, for example:
- Varying how they hold their cards
- Varying how they place their bidding cards
- Varying how they play their cards
- Varying their tempo
- Coughing
- Scratching their nose
- Picking up or repositioning a writing implement or scorecard
- Taking off their glasses
- Asking coded questions
- Varying when they put the score into the Bridgemate

With all these ways for people to cheat, it seems fatuous to legislate to remove one unlikely option. Especially as most of us play in an environment where cheating of ths type is almost never encountered.