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1S or X

Poll: 1S or X (24 member(s) have cast votes)

What Action Here

  1. 1 Spade (20 votes [83.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 83.33%

  2. Double (3 votes [12.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.50%

  3. Other (1 votes [4.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

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#1 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2013-December-17, 07:13

IMPS (BBO hand)




this hand came up just now, i wasn't sure what my best bid was. I thought for a bit but decided to X on the basis that 1 - it's basically take out double shape except for an extra spade and 2) p might be wanting me to X so he can pass it for pens if he has a stack of H himself.

However literally everyone else on the hand bid 1S. Was X crazy lol?

Thanks,

Eagles


"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#2 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2013-December-17, 07:17

The shape demands 1♠, but balancing is a little different. Using the add-a-king-when-balancing rule, we might start with double, it's close. Plus ops are vul, once in a while we can hang 'em high. I think I would try it.
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#3 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2013-December-17, 07:25

It's close but I think I would like a slightly better hand for X followed by 2♠. So 1♠ for me.
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#4 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2013-December-17, 07:50

I think that 1♠ this time, planning to X over 2♥ when it gets back to me next time, describes the hand better than X first time and 2♠ next time.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#5 User is offline   WGF_Flame 

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Posted 2013-December-17, 09:07

 eagles123, on 2013-December-17, 07:13, said:

IMPS (BBO hand)




this hand came up just now, i wasn't sure what my best bid was. I thought for a bit but decided to X on the basis that 1 - it's basically take out double shape except for an extra spade and 2) p might be wanting me to X so he can pass it for pens if he has a stack of H himself.

However literally everyone else on the hand bid 1S. Was X crazy lol?

Thanks,

Eagles


As you can see, the reasson people consider double here is not because of the shape, but because of the strengh, Q more and they probebly double, but again not because of the shape. as for the shape, always give higher priority to majors, the difference between a the 5 card major you have in spade, and the 3 card minor is huge. (especially that the spades looks so nice). change the spades and diamonds and people will like the double much more.
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#6 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2013-December-17, 16:03

all makes sense thanks all :)

Eagles
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#7 User is offline   akwoo 

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Posted 2013-December-17, 16:27

I would bid 1♠, but with a low singleton heart and KQJx in clubs, I think that would be strong enough for double then 2♠ in balancing seat.
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#8 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2013-December-17, 20:20

Since we're in fourth hand there's not much need for a weak jump overcall. If discussed with partner I think it is sensible to overcall 2S here, showing a good spade suit and perhaps 14-16 hcp.
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#9 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2013-December-18, 14:37

 Kungsgeten, on 2013-December-17, 20:20, said:

Since we're in fourth hand there's not much need for a weak jump overcall. If discussed with partner I think it is sensible to overcall 2S here, showing a good spade suit and perhaps 14-16 hcp.

I would expect a 6th Spade from a partner who did that opposite me.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#10 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-December-18, 15:00

Top of the range for a 1♠ balance. Not quite a good enough hand for double followed by 1♠, and not a long enough suit for a 2♠ balance.
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#11 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2013-December-18, 15:12

 ArtK78, on 2013-December-18, 15:00, said:

Top of the range for a 1♠ balance. Not quite a good enough hand for double followed by 1♠, and not a long enough suit for a 2♠ balance.

We agree 100%.
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#12 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2013-December-18, 16:49

 1eyedjack, on 2013-December-18, 14:37, said:

I would expect a 6th Spade from a partner who did that opposite me.


Ofcourse, I must have miscounted the spades in the diagram :D
In that case I would bid 1♠ with this hand.
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#13 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2013-December-18, 19:40

 ArtK78, on 2013-December-18, 15:00, said:

Top of the range for a 1♠ balance. Not quite a good enough hand for double followed by 1♠, and not a long enough suit for a 2♠ balance.


I also agree with this.

"Borrowing a King" has been mentioned, but I don't think that this refers to doubling and then bidding a suit. It's about choosing whether to act at all with a marginal hand.

To the OP: you will not go far wrong if you make it a policy never to make a takeout double with a 5-card major. The only time I would ever consider it is over a minor where I had a stronger 4-card major. I can't even remember the last time I did this.

Of course this does not apply if you have a very strong hand and are intending to double and then bid your suit.
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