[spadebaby]

For some reason, I get confused when its ok to bid with a 4 card major.
With Standard American, you open with 13 points and a 5 card major.

1. But if your partner opens with 1 heart....can you bid 1 spade only having 4 of them?
or is that a no no?


2. If your opponent opens 1 heart....can you bid 1 spade with only 4 of them?

Thanks...

I know this is really elementary....but it confuses me for some reason.

Thanks

[hrothgar]

1. If you chose to introduce a spade suit, you can do so with a four card suit.

However, there are some hands where you might prefer to raise hearts or make a 2/1 rather than bidding spades.

Suppose partner opens 1♥

With this hand, I would chose to bid 1♠

♠ K985
♥ Q93
♦ AK63
♣ 74

In contrast, I'd prefer to raise to 2♥ holding

♠ K985
♥ Q93
♦ AK63
♣ 74

Here's another 1♠ bid

♠ K985
♥ Q9
♦ 42
♣ K8743

While here's a 2♣ response

♠ K985
♥ Q9
♦ 4
♣ AK8743

[the hog]

1. But if your partner opens with 1 heart....can you bid 1 spade only having 4 of them?
or is that a no no?

Absolutely! You only need 4 to respond.

2. If your opponent opens 1 heart....can you bid 1 spade with only 4 of them?
Well, many players would not. My comment is that if you have a good 4 card suit eg AQJx AKJx or similar, then I would. However this is perhaps not good advice for a beginner or novice, but for experienced players. Most players will have 5 for an overcall.

[hrothgar]

Quote

2. If your opponent opens 1 heart....can you bid 1 spade with only 4 of them?

As a general rule, a 1♠ overcall in direct seat suggests 5+ Spades

It's possible to construct hands where many experts would chose to over 1♠ with a four card suit. However, these aren't frequent.

I'd consider the following hand a prototypical example

♠ AKJ8
♥ A32
♦ Q6432
♣ 9

The hand has enough playing strength that you don't want to pass.
The diamond suit is too weak to show at the two level
Double is dangerous because you don't have a good call if partner bids clubs
The spade suit has lead directing value

[spadebaby]

Thank you very much.

That has cleared up my confusion.

[Zelandakh]

spadebaby, on 2013-November-14, 21:37, said:

Thank you very much.

That has cleared up my confusion.

But not mine. Hrothgar, you lost me with this example:

hrothgar, on 2013-November-14, 21:12, said:

Suppose partner opens 1♥

With this hand, I would chose to bid 1♠

♠ K985
♥ Q93
♦ AK63
♣ 74

In contrast, I'd prefer to raise to 2♥ holding

♠ K985
♥ Q93
♦ AK63
♣ 74

In any case, the summary is that you can always respond in a 4 card major but you should prefer to bid a longer minor in a GF hand. However, you should usually avoid overcalling in a 4 card suit, at least until you get a feeling for what a style with (somewhat) frequent 4 card overcalls might mean. For the time being, overcall in a 4 card suit only if willing to treat it as a 5 bagger - something like 3 of the top 4 honours - or simply not at all.

[helene_t]

It is important to find a 4-4 fit in a major. This means that especially when you play a system in which opener often can't introduce a 4-card major, it is important that responder shows his. Suppose both opener and responder needed a 5-card suit. Then it would often go
1♦-1NT
pass

and you would be playing 1NT while you have a 4-4 fit in one of the majors. That can't be good.

Hrothgar's second example is a mistake. A simple raise shows about 6-9 points. 12 is way too much. The hand should have been something like
♠K985
♥Q93
♦K632
♣74

[hrothgar]

helene_t, on 2013-November-15, 05:51, said:

It is important to find a 4-4 fit in a major. This means that especially when you play a system in which opener often can't introduce a 4-card major, it is important that responder shows his. Suppose both opener and responder needed a 5-card suit. Then it would often go
1♦-1NT
pass

and you would be playing 1NT while you have a 4-4 fit in one of the majors. That can't be good.

Hrothgar's second example is a mistake. A simple raise shows about 6-9 points. 12 is way too much. The hand should have been something like
♠K985
♥Q93
♦K632
♣74

Second example was a cut and paste mistake.
Amusingly, I meant to delete the Ace and replace it with a small card to produce the same hand the Helene did...