[MickyB]

IMPs. LHO is a sponsor, RHO is a good player. They are playing strong NT 5cM.

---

[ahydra]

What kind of spades will partner have for a vul vs not overcall? Hopefully good ones, like KQ, right? So if we lead SA, then another, encourage partner to switch to hearts through declarer's putative Q or A, then when in with the CK we make a heart for our fifth trick.

The thing is it doesn't sound like partner has very much - around 5 HCPs at most - so if he's known for overcalling on rubbish it might be wiser to hope he has the HQ.

ahydra

[WellSpyder]

My partner chose to lead a ♥ after a similar auction. I'm not sure of the exact auction or the play at the other table, but there was a total of six tricks difference between what the two declarers made in their respective NT contracts.

[gnasher]

I'd lead a heart.

It sounds as though neither opponent has four of them, so a heart is likely to work when partner has the ten or the queen, or when the ace is short, or when partner has an entry and a second heart.

A spade needs declarer to have only one spade stop and partner to have a side entry. That's a lot to hope for, but if he does have that a heart lead may still work.

[mr1303]

I'm going with the heart.

I have the entries to set up the heart suit. Unless opps are lunatics* I expect partner has not.




*Yes, I have read the OP about clients & pros.

[MrAce]

gnasher, on 2013-October-10, 03:15, said:

A spade needs declarer to have only one spade stop and partner to have a side entry. That's a lot to hope for, but if he does have that a heart lead may still work.

I am not saying ♥ lead is wrong, but i am % 99 confident that declarer has only 1 ♠ stopper, IF ANY, for pd to bid 2 ♠ at these colors. I am aware declarer can have QTxx ♠ but he did not have much luxury to bid 3NT on only hands where he has decent stopper(s). He was pretty much forced to bid something, and imo he bid their most likely game looking at his hand.

Anyway, i would have doubled 3 NT in order to avoid this problem, they can not sit on it when i have 11 hcp and pd bidding red vs white. If they sit on it, which i see as a very small possibility, we will have better idea about ♠ suit and may reconsider the lead.

With given conditions i would lead ♠, rightly or wrongly my reasons are;

-If ♥ lead is wrong, exit plans are reduced (harder to recover) as oppose to more recovery options on ♠ lead
-They may not even have a ♠ stopper, RHO imho would bid 3NT with J9x Qx. We all seen it.
-If RHO has a legit stopper, pd will have something on the side most of the time. If he has ♥ A as i said we are very likely to recover. If he has ♥ Q we can still shift before his ♠ K is knocked.
-Their ambition to play 3 NT when they obviously lack the power for it, shows they have a running suit (or they hope that it is running) On ♥ lead i can see them making 2♥ +6♦ +1 ♣.

-Of course pd may hold QJTxxxx Qx xxxx x or similar hand where ♠ lead would give them the 9th trick and as i said before my leads suck big time

[jddons]

The other hands were? I lead AS. If a heart is right and a spade is wrong, I still have a partnership. If I lead a heart and a spade is right, I will have to buy a barrel of beer before I'm forgiven!

[MrAce]

jddons, on 2013-October-13, 11:18, said:

The other hands were? I lead AS. If a heart is right and a spade is wrong, I still have a partnership. If I lead a heart and a spade is right, I will have to buy a barrel of beer before I'm forgiven!

If keeping the pdship was our goal, i would agree with you. However last thing an expert will do is to defend, lead, play or bid with the fear of postmortem stupidity of his/her pd.

I would like to be humble and say that i am not expert, however i am Turkish -------> I am born expert ----->upgraded to world class on my first encounter vs players from another country


Joke aside, Andy (Gnasher) is an expert player. If i was his pd and he led hearts as he said he would in his reply, and if heart lead was wrong, even worse if it is the only lead that lets them make 3 NT, there would not be any conversation about it. I would not even think what he did was wrong even though i believe in spade lead. I would probably try to figure why he did that and if i cannot i would just simply ask him the reasoning behind heart lead after the session, in order to satisfy my curiosity. It would have never occur to me to break my pd ship for a lead with anyone that i call my pd.. (Unless of course he insists on playing Acol. I just simply have allergy to it. It is a depressive system which makes Pink Floyd sound like a cheer leader )

[MickyB]

xx QTxx AJTx AJ9

Kxx Ax Qxx QTxxx

so it was cold on a heart lead and requires some guessing on a spade lead

[the hog]

I will lead a S. I too am not saying a H is wrong, but pd did bid Spades after all. There have been similar problems posed in the first. In nearly all, unless I have a solid sequence I lead partner's suit.

[gnasher]

MickyB, on 2013-October-14, 00:35, said:

xx QTxx AJTx AJ9

Kxx Ax Qxx QTxxx

so it was cold on a heart lead and requires some guessing on a spade lead

Is it cold on a heart lead?

You haven't shown us ♥9, so I assume partner has it. If declarer wins the first heart in dummy he's awkwardly placed. Suppose he decides to play clubs from dummy. We win and play another heart, he takes a losing diamond finesse, partner plays a spade honour, and declarer has to guess who has ♠A.

Edit: Declarer might decide to cross to ♥A at trick two in order to take a club finesse, but that also has risks. Imagine a different layout where the minor-suit kings are switched. East takes the second club, then the defence cash two spades and endplay dummy.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2013-October-14, 02:49

[jddons]

MrAce, on 2013-October-13, 13:45, said:

If keeping the pdship was our goal, i would agree with you. However last thing an expert will do is to defend, lead, play or bid with the fear of postmortem stupidity of his/her pd.

I would like to be humble and say that i am not expert, however i am Turkish -------> I am born expert ----->upgraded to world class on my first encounter vs players from another country


Joke aside, Andy (Gnasher) is an expert player. If i was his pd and he led hearts as he said he would in his reply, and if heart lead was wrong, even worse if it is the only lead that lets them make 3 NT, there would not be any conversation about it. I would not even think what he did was wrong even though i believe in spade lead. I would probably try to figure why he did that and if i cannot i would just simply ask him the reasoning behind heart lead after the session, in order to satisfy my curiosity. It would have never occur to me to break my pd ship for a lead with anyone that i call my pd.. (Unless of course he insists on playing Acol. I just simply have allergy to it. It is a depressive system which makes Pink Floyd sound like a cheer leader )

[jddons]

You sound like the perfect partner MrAce. However I think it is easier to be understanding when playing with an expert partner whose carefully considered lead proves to be second best, than it is when playing with an idiot who won't even lead my suit after I made a vulnerable jump overcall!!!

[MickyB]

gnasher, on 2013-October-14, 02:44, said:

Is it cold on a heart lead?

You haven't shown us ♥9, so I assume partner has it. If declarer wins the first heart in dummy he's awkwardly placed. Suppose he decides to play clubs from dummy. We win and play another heart, he takes a losing diamond finesse, partner plays a spade honour, and declarer has to guess who has ♠A.

Edit: Declarer might decide to cross to ♥A at trick two in order to take a club finesse, but that also has risks. Imagine a different layout where the minor-suit kings are switched. East takes the second club, then the defence cash two spades and endplay dummy.

I think the heart lead marks me with the spade ace. Declarer crossed to the heart ace at T2. You are right that it isn't cold but I think he's always going to make it on the lie of the cards?

[WellSpyder]

gnasher, on 2013-October-14, 02:44, said:

Is it cold on a heart lead?

You haven't shown us ♥9, so I assume partner has it. If declarer wins the first heart in dummy he's awkwardly placed. Suppose he decides to play clubs from dummy. We win and play another heart, he takes a losing diamond finesse, partner plays a spade honour, and declarer has to guess who has ♠A.

You weren't watching at our table, were you? This is exactly how declarer played on a ♥ lead (having won T1 with ♥Q). When I returned ♠Q declarer felt he had to play me for ♠A as his only chance to make the contract, and we were able to run both majors against him for 2N-6....

[Fluffy]

Why doesn't declarer stop hearts 3 times?

[MrAce]

jddons, on 2013-October-14, 03:45, said:

You sound like the perfect partner MrAce. However I think it is easier to be understanding when playing with an expert partner whose carefully considered lead proves to be second best, than it is when playing with an idiot who won't even lead my suit after I made a vulnerable jump overcall!!!

You are wrong. I am far from being a perfect pd. I wish i was

I wrote what i wrote because this is expert forum. I did not expect anyone to play with an idiot. An expert would either play with another expert, or will play with a client (or play with a family member/close friend non expert) in all cases the expert one, unless he is one of those who believes he was born expert, will know to not make a big deal out of it.


Having said that, here is a real life story;

I was playing against my father and his partner at a local MP event. After i opened precision 2♣ with 7♣ +4M we ended up playing game in my side major. PD happened to hold 4 clubs as well. My dad led his stiff club and expected to get a ruff. His pd held 3 times and of course he did not give his ruff because he did not have the suit either. My dad was holding himself very hard not to say something. So i decided to lead him the way and told his pd " you should have given his ruff, was down 2 instead of making" My dad, seeing someone else already started the criticism, jumped on it like a sea bass on bait and started ranting " I know, why would i lead declarer's first suit from the far corner into his strong holding if i did not have stiff bla bla bla...we are losng to kids because of you...bla bla" Finally we told him his pd had it stiff too...my dad said after remaining silent for couple minutes " He would not have given my ruff even if he had more clubs, i know him very well " !! They both believe they are world class players by the way but still have this converstaion after seeing (or supposed to count my hand and see) me holding 7 clubs during the game

Some people are always right ! I love my dad to death, but i also love to mess with him at the table

[WellSpyder]

Fluffy, on 2013-October-14, 10:07, said:

Why doesn't declarer stop hearts 3 times?

Declarer decided to gain a tempo by playing ♥Q at T1! Unfortunately when a second (low) ♥ knocked out his A, the K and J were still out to catch dummy's 10....

[FrancesHinden]

Much the same thing happened at our table on a heart lead against 2NT when declarer decided to rise at trick one and play clubs from the dummy. Sadly it wasn't 2NT-6 because because he cashed his winners then took a diamond finesse so only 2 off.
I think the lead problem is different against 2NT than 3NT.

p.s. partner had singleton H9. 3NT is cold on any lead as long as deep finesse is playing it.