[Antrax]

IMPs, all vul, three passes to you.

---

Is this an opening hand?
If so, is it still an opening hand if you reverse the minors?

[Winstonm]

I don't think the rule of 15 matters. This is a 6-loser hand that can produce slam opposite the right passed hand: xxxx, x, Kxxxx, Kxx. Passing out your 6-diamond hand is hard on team morale.

[nigel_k]

If I have a hand that would be a sound opening bid in 1st/2nd I will always open in 4th. The rule of 15 is for marginal or sub-minimum hands.

[Antrax]

Winstonm, is that construction consistent with both opponents passing?

[monikrazy]

Yes.
Yes.

Agree w/ Winston that the rule of 15 doesn't really help us evaluate Hero's hand in this spot.. The rule of 15 mostly aims to remind us that if we are competing for a part score strength in the majors is more valuable.

While there still is a risk opponents find a part-score in spades after we open the bidding Hero's hand is a bit too strong for us pass out with confidence of scoring well.

Antrax, on 2013-October-03, 23:39, said:

Winstonm, is that construction consistent with both opponents passing?

The rule of 15 generally assumes the points outside of the hand are evenly divided, so we should expect our partner to have 9.3333 points on average. Hero's partner showing up with xxxx, x, Kxxxx, Kxx is consistent with the bidding and strongly suggests both opponents were only slightly short of an opening bid.

[mike777]

I will try pass rather than assume the opp have misbid or we have a perfect fit.

As we have recently seen top flight bridge opens often on 9-10 point hands with spades.

btw this is only a 6 loser hand if we have a fit which we don't know yet.

[ahydra]

mike777, on 2013-October-04, 10:03, said:

I will try pass rather than assume the opp have misbid or we have a perfect fit.

As we have recently seen top flight bridge opens often on 9-10 point hands with spades.

btw this is only a 6 loser hand if we have a fit which we don't know yet.

You are a much more experienced player than me, for sure, but is it really wise to trust opponents so deeply? If anything it should be trust partner most, then yourself, and oppo least.

This is a clearcut 1D bid. If opps suddenly discover a 10-card spade fit, ah well, next board.

ahydra

[mike777]

ahydra, on 2013-October-04, 10:14, said:

You are a much more experienced player than me, for sure, but is it really wise to trust opponents so deeply? If anything it should be trust partner most, then yourself, and oppo least.

This is a clearcut 1D bid. If opps suddenly discover a 10-card spade fit, ah well, next board.

ahydra

In bidding quizzes we are to assume the opp are true experts and have not misbid...that is sort of the ground rules.

[Antrax]

I was actually more worried about the eight-card spade fit. I guess my error was assuming this must be a partscore hand.

[ggwhiz]

The rule of 15 as I learned it continued "or a hand that is comfortable competing to the 3 level".

Given that we can always find our best trump fit (negative or re-opening doubles) this hand certainly qualifies.

[mike777]

ok so what is the deal


did we have the perfect fit where a minor suit slam is cold on 18 hcp?

[Antrax]

No, the deal was a boring part score:
1♦-(p)-1♥-(1♠)
2♥-(2♠)-p-(p)

I competed to 3♥ and GIB went one down, didn't bother checking if 2♠ was making. I did deliberate for about a whole minute about whether or not to open.

[mike777]

Antrax, on 2013-October-04, 23:50, said:

No, the deal was a boring part score:
1♦-(p)-1♥-(1♠)
2♥-(2♠)-p-(p)

I competed to 3♥ and GIB went one down, didn't bother checking if 2♠ was making. I did deliberate for about a whole minute about whether or not to open.

crap so you pass with no spades?

[akwoo]

Let me emphasize one thing here:

Form of scoring matters.

By opening here, you are basically risking losing a few partscore battles for some reasonable chance for a game in hearts (or more remotely in a minor).

At IMPs (as this problem is presented), where the 1 time you find a game offsets losing 2 or 3 partscores, I think this is worth opening.

At MPs, I think most players wouldn't want to open. And I think of the rule of 15 as mostly a rule for MPs which doesn't apply quite so much to IMPs.