[Vampyr]

Sorry if this is a bit lazy, but I find the ACBL Convention Charts somewhat difficult to understand. In anticipation of playing in the US later this year, I am seeking help in classifying my system.

We don't play anything exotic, but there are a few things that might not be allowed on some of the charts, and I would be really grateful if someone familiar with ACBL regulations could tell me whether any of the following are disallowed on any of the charts or require a written defense (this last I regard as vanishingly unlikely, but it is better to be safe than sorry):

1. Transfers after 1M-(X)
2. Double of a pass-or-correct bid is takeout or penalty
3. Over (1strongNT) and over (1weakNT after we have passed) double is majors or minors or diamonds
4. Over (1m) that could be 2 cards or fewer, 2♥ is weak with 6 cards in hearts or spades
5. Over a strong club or a 1-diamond response we play a version of CRASH
6. Artificial methods after reverses and jump shifts.
7. 3NT opening is a good 4M bid.
8. 1NT - 4♣ and 2NT - 4♣ shows both majors.

Thanks.

[RMB1]

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 19:17, said:

8. 1NT - 4♣ and 2NT - 4♣ shows both majors.

This may not be permitted - I think Gerber is not just permitted but compulsory.

Not just that 4♣ must be Gerber but also that 1NT-6NT is not permitted - you must bid 4♣ first.

(but given the date of the OP, perhaps that was not serious either)

[Vampyr]

RMB1, on 2013-March-31, 19:32, said:

This may not be permitted - I think Gerber is not just permitted but compulsory.

Got it.

My post was serious though, if a bit stupid.

[awm]

1. Transfers over 1M-(X) are legal on the general chart (Competitive 7a, defense to conventional calls)
2. Double of pass/correct bids as takeout or penalty, legal on the general chart (Competitive 7a, defense to conventional calls)
3. Double of 1NT as major or minors or diamonds, legal on the general chart (Competitive 7b, defense to natural notrump calls)
4. Over (1m) that could be 2 cards or fewer, 2♥ is hearts or spades, legal on the general chart except in the case of a 1♣ opening that is always 2+ except for the specific distribution of 4432 (Competitive 7a, defense to conventional calls). In the specific case mentioned this defense would not be allowed in the ACBL; defenses to natural bids of this type are not permitted (see super chart 1b).
5. Version of CRASH over strong 1♣ and/or 1♦ response is legal on the general chart (Competitive 7a, defense to conventional calls).
6. Artificial methods after reverse or jump shift are legal on the general chart (Responses/Rebids 8, any constructive methods allowed starting with opener's second call).
7. 3NT opening as a good 4M bid might qualify on the general chart under Openings 4 (strength showing opening bid at the two-level or higher that asks for aces, kings, queens, singletons, voids, or trump quality) depending on exactly how strong you make it. It also might quality on the general chart under Openings 8a (3NT opening showing a solid suit). If the opening is neither strong enough for the first (the strength required is not really defined but my rough feeling is that a hand with 8.5+ tricks would be okay since this is a commonly used threshold for opening 2♣ strong) nor solid enough for the second (7+ suit headed by AKQ is surely fine, you might be able to get away with AK-eighth), then the method would be super chart although there have been some recent attempts to get it legalized on the mid-chart.
8. 1NT-4♣ and 2NT-4♣ showing majors are general chart (Responses 10, all calls after a natural notrump) unless your notrump opening could be weaker than 10 hcp or have a range of more than 5 hcp.

To summarize, everything you play is general chart, with the exception of your 2♥ bid over the specific 1♣ opening that shows "3+♣ or exactly 4432 in that order" and possibly the 3NT opening. General chart methods are allowed in every event outside of a few beginner games.

[Vampyr]

Thanks for all that.

Disappointed about the 3NT opening; we don't play it as strong as you describe. I couldn't find it mentioned as allowed on the Super Chart.

How many Super Chart events are held at a Nationals?

[Mbodell]

The main charts to worry about are GCC (which applies most places) and Midchart (which only applies at "top level" national/regionals, mostly). Anything GCC legal is legal in the higher charts. Clubs are free to do what they like, but the majority are GCC. Depending on where you are you may see some other midchart options (some sectionals do midchart, for instance).

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 19:17, said:

1. Transfers after 1M-(X)

This is GCC legal. I think the rule that allows this is competitive 2, but maybe it is defense to conventional call.

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 19:17, said:

2. Double of a pass-or-correct bid is takeout or penalty

This is GCC legal. Competitive 2.

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 19:17, said:

3. Over (1strongNT) and over (1weakNT after we have passed) double is majors or minors or diamonds

This is GCC legal. Competitive 7: a defense to a natural notrump opening bid where X is allowed to have no known suit.

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 19:17, said:

4. Over (1m) that could be 2 cards or fewer, 2♥ is weak with 6 cards in hearts or spades

This is GCC legal *EXCEPT* not over 1♣ if 1♣ can only be 2 cards when specifically 4=4=3=2. Competitive 7. The prohibition on doing this over the 4=4=3=2 1♣ is still in effect at the mid-chart, but you can play this in super-chart events (very close to non-existent).

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 19:17, said:

5. Over a strong club or a 1-diamond response we play a version of CRASH

This is GCC legal. Competitive 7.

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 19:17, said:

6. Artificial methods after reverses and jump shifts.

GCC legal. Responses and rebids 8.

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 19:17, said:

7. 3NT opening is a good 4M bid.

This is not allowed at GCC or Midchart *UNLESS* the major is a "solid suit". Opening bid 8a. You'd be fine in midchart if it promised 15+ HCP also (midchart 5). You would be fine at the superchart even if the suit wasn't solid and it could be less than 15 HCP.

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 19:17, said:

8. 1NT - 4♣ and 2NT - 4♣ shows both majors.

This is GCC legal (as long as your 1nt and 2nt bids have a lower limit of at least 10 points and don't have a range of greater than 5 hcp). Responses and rebids 10.


So I think you are fine at GCC as long as you pretend that a 1♣ that can be as short as 2 but only when specifically 4=4=3=2 promises 3 and that your 3nt promises a solid suit.

[Mbodell]

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 20:45, said:

Disappointed about the 3NT opening; we don't play it as strong as you describe. I couldn't find it mentioned as allowed on the Super Chart.

Well any non-destructive convention is allowed on super-chart. And even if someone were to argue that since it might be "weakish" in its preempt, then that would be allowed on super chart since artificial weak bids at the 2 or 3 level must posses one of no moret han two possible suits not to include the suit bid and 3nt showing a major fits that definition too (but really I think it non-destructive).

[Vampyr]

Thanks

[Mbodell]

Vampyr, on 2013-March-31, 20:45, said:

How many Super Chart events are held at a Nationals?

There are 3 nationals a year, but only 2 superchart events total (Vanderbilt and Spingold). In the Fall National there is no superchart event.

[mycroft]

One note: Transfers after 1M doubled are legal because the double is conventional. I know "nobody" does it, but if the double is penalty, you can't play it! If you find the one pair that does, and you do, and they call the TD, it's likely that you'll be allowed to anyway, though - mostly because nobody can wrap their head around the sequence.

Big generics:
- You can play "anything" after your NT openers.
- You can play "anything" after their conventional calls.
- You can play "anything" starting with opener's rebid.
- You can play "any" meaning of doubles and redoubles.

Words in quotes mean 'unless DISALLOWED by something (usually "totally destructive methods" or "after having opened an Endicott Fudge call (too-weak or too-wide NTs, or 'unfair' weak 2s)")'.

It's unfortunate that 3NT can be a preempt in a minor, but not in a major. I think there is enough interest in this to push it to C&C or BoD, but not enough (or by not enough of the right players) to get it passed. What, cynical, me?

[Siegmund]

The only nit I have to pick with all of the above is everyone treating a pass-or-correct call as conventional. The pass-or-correct call itself often isn't, though it often has been preceded by a conventional call at partner's previous turn.

As already noted, the 3NT has to be solid, not just good, and the rest are good to go.

[glen]

Siegmund, on 2013-April-04, 23:47, said:

The only nit I have to pick with all of the above is everyone treating a pass-or-correct call as conventional. The pass-or-correct call itself often isn't ...

The reason that everyone treats a pass-or-correct call as conventional is that it is, since it shows more than just the suit bid, as it says something about another suit too

[Siegmund]

Some pass-or-correct calls are conventional, like the 2S response to multi showing better hearts than spades. Others, like the 2H response to multi, announce what contract you want to play if partner has one hand, and say nothing about how high you plan to go if he doesn't.

The pass-or-correct calls you will see in an ACBL GCC event are overwhelmingly of the latter variety - people playing things like CRASH with full sets of p/c advances are rare. You will see things like (1S)-2S Michaels -(Pass)-3C p/c -- over which your right to a conventional defense is based on the 2S being Michaels, not the 3C bid being p/c -- and you will see lots of things like uncontested 1D-1S-1NT-2D, where nothing is conventional at all, where p/c is a correct explanation of 2D and a two-way double is not allowed.

The Europeans will laugh, as will the exotic systems fan (and I will too, now, since I'm in that latter category) but for at least the first five years I played bridge the only time I ever heard the phrase "pass or correct" was in regard to sequences like 1D-1S-1NT-2D, and from the blank stares I get when I try to explain how CRASH works to people, I get the impression there are a lot of ACBL folk who stay in that same boat their whole lives.

[mycroft]

Pass-or-correct by definition is "the contract I want to play opposite the worst (for me) of partner's possible hand shapes". It's natural, but only in "willing to play here" mode; implicit in it is either that we have no "good" place to play, or if you correct I'll be happier than if you pass.

The Michaels example fits "everyone"'s definition of p/c; the latter one doesn't seem so to me.

I mean in that case, my very aggressive transfer overcall system direct over strong NT is "pass or correct" - pass if you think your diamond suit is better than my heart suit, bid hearts otherwise. I can't believe that.

[Vampyr]

Siegmund, on 2013-April-05, 08:51, said:

The Europeans will laugh, as will the exotic systems fan (and I will too, now, since I'm in that latter category) but for at least the first five years I played bridge the only time I ever heard the phrase "pass or correct" was in regard to sequences like 1D-1S-1NT-2D, and from the blank stares I get when I try to explain how CRASH works to people, I get the impression there are a lot of ACBL folk who stay in that same boat their whole lives.

Our penalty-or-takeout double does not apply when we have already bid, since we will have other options available. In fact I can't really think of when it applies apart from over Multi.

[steve2005]

Mbodell, on 2013-March-31, 20:48, said:

This is not allowed at GCC or Midchart *UNLESS* the major is a "solid suit". Opening bid 8a. You'd be fine in midchart if it promised 15+ HCP also (midchart 5). You would be fine at the superchart even if the suit wasn't solid and it could be less than 15 HCP.

3N as a good major pre-empt. I concur it has to be a solid suit to qualify for GCC