[Zelandakh]

barsikb, on 2013-February-23, 08:43, said:

1. Authors suggest using TOD with opening bid values including distribution. Is it really reasonable to do TOD without 12HCP very often? (not talking about balancing Dbl now)

The traditional way of playing a take out double is effectively 13 points including 3 for a void in their suit, 2 for a singleton or 1 for a doubleton. That is, 10hcp with a void, 11hcp with a singleton or 12hcp with a doubleton. So yes, opening a TOD with less than 12 is fine with the right shape. Remember these are traditional numbers and many double with less than this, or with less optimal shapes these days too. However, 12 is not a magic number. There are many hands where you should be happy to pass with 12hcp, indeed even with 14hcp. There is a style of doubling where you double with these weak NT hand types but it is not a style I would recommend to N/B players. On the other hand, doubling with less than 12 and perfect shape is something I do recommend.

barsikb, on 2013-February-23, 08:43, said:

2. I am used to responding by bidding 1NT with 6 HCP only (probably because I trust my doubling partner to have at least 12HCP). How bad is that?
They say 8-10. (with a stopper in opps' suit, of course)

As Helene writes, 6-9 is traditional but some think a more constructive range is better. On the other hand, I have seen some very good players recommend responding 1NT to a TOD with considerably less than 6 in expert panel quizzes. Perhaps a reasonable compromise can be found with 7 to 10.

barsikb, on 2013-February-23, 08:43, said:

3. Authors recommend jumping to game in response to partner's TOD with opening values and a 5-card major. What if partner had 6-card suit in another major, shortness in my major and was too strong to overcall (not much chance, I know)?

I recommend bidding the opponents' suit (cue bid) with a hand that can force to game on power, as discussed on your previous TOD thread. Instead, you can use a direct jump to game to show a more distributional hand.

barsikb, on 2013-February-23, 08:43, said:

4. I am used to understand the second Dbl in this bidding sequence: 1♣ - Dbl - 1♥ - Dbl as showing 4-card ♠ suit (bidding ♠ now would show five of them) but this book says this double would show positive values and having ♥ (at least four of them). Really confused now.

Although you could play double as showing spades, I would personally recommend against it. Life is just easier if double shows hearts here. This is a general rule when we make a TOD and they bid one of the suits that is presumed to be held. There is more of a case for double to show hearts if they have bid spades but most have this double show spades (the suit bid) too, presumably for consistency more than for any theoretical merit.

[mycroft]

1. Opening values counting dummy points (distribution assuming we're playing partner's suit) has been recommended for many years. There are just too many hands you want to compete the partscore with that you'd have to pass if you don't have 12 high.

Note, I'd rather double with a 4=1=4=4 10 count than a 4=0=4=5 10 count; partner *will* pass occasionally, or bid NT...

If you only have 3 in a major, remember to downvalue shortness accordingly, especially 3244s.

2. When partner doubles, she has a shapely hand short in opener's suit. The last thing she wants to hear is NT by partner; all her distribution has now gone out the window. Even the 4=3 spade fit will play better with a heart "stopper" - say it's the Ace (to be nice); you're ruffing in the long hand, but you'll still manage to scramble two or three spade tricks as heart ruffs, whereas in NT, you may only be getting your high cards. And frequently we do find a fit, even with length in opener's suit.

So that's why you want more for a NT response. Sometimes you don't have a choice; but you *want* more.

3. and 4. I'll leave to the other posters; they've explained it quite well, I see. Having said that, there are enough people around here that play "extended responsive doubles" (1m-X-1M-X takeout) that I'm quite happy bidding my major with pretty much anything, raise available or not. I haven't quite gone to the outright psych (more than once...) I refuse to change this one to takeout, which does surprise my partners occasionally...

[SteveMoe]

barsikb, on 2013-February-23, 08:43, said:

Reading TOD chapter in "25 Ways to Compete in the Bidding" (Barbara Seagram, Marc Smith).

1. Authors suggest using TOD with opening bid values including distribution. Is it really reasonable to do TOD without 12HCP very often? (not talking about balancing Dbl now)

2. I am used to responding by bidding 1NT with 6 HCP only (probably because I trust my doubling partner to have at least 12HCP). How bad is that?
They say 8-10. (with a stopper in opps' suit, of course)

3. Authors recommend jumping to game in response to partner's TOD with opening values and a 5-card major. What if partner had 6-card suit in another major, shortness in my major and was too strong to overcall (not much chance, I know)?

4. I am used to understand the second Dbl in this bidding sequence: 1♣ - Dbl - 1♥ - Dbl as showing 4-card ♠ suit (bidding ♠ now would show five of them) but this book says this double would show positive values and having ♥ (at least four of them). Really confused now.

Would appreciate your thoughts and comments

1) At the 1-level, I like doubling with a good 10 HCP and perfect 4441 shape. For each additional card we add to THEIR suit, we need more strength. 4432 = 11/12, 4333 = 14. When I have values and do not have support for 3 suits I like overcalling in a 4-card major at the 1 level. The benefits for your defense cannot be over estimated. We have never lost points because of 4-card length. At the 2 level I need a Q more and at the 3 level I need an A more, and so on...

2) Responding 1NT to an OPENING bid by tpartner on 6 HCP is OK. When partner has made a takeout double, I prefer 1NT to show 8-11 HCP. With 6 or 7 HCP I will find a way to bid a suit. Sometimes we have to bid 1 of a major on 3-cards because we do not have values for 1NT, cannot bid a 4-card minor at the 2-level and we cannot pass for penalties. (I like 2N to show 12-14 HCP, and 3N to show 15-17 HCP).

3) Doubling then rebidding a new suit typically shows extras (17-19) and implies a 5-card suit. With 6=3=1=3 14+ many will overcall 1♠ over their 1♦ opening, intending to double ♦ at the next turn. This avoids complications when they jump in their suit. To avoid the complication that occurs when partner on a rare occasion has a bid hand and you and LHO both have opening bids, use a cue bid of their suit to express your intention and give partner a chance to show their hand. A cue bid followed by a new suit by you is GF. Keeping the bidding low allows strain exploration. (Usually when they open the bidding slam is out of the question).

4) Modern trend is to show both unbid suits, but this is a minority view. The meaning is I own RHO's Major and have a good hand. Not a command to penalize but a very descriptive bid that discourages RHo from psyching a major suit response in the hopes of confusing our side.

Let me offer this link fo an outline that you might find helpful - Takeout Doubles and Overcalls

One thing to think about competitive bidding - you should view how you use doubles, overcalls and 2-suit bids (e.g. Michaels, Unusual NT, Others) TOGETHER - it is very important to eliminate overlaps because they cause confusion.

[PhilKing]

The fact that one suggestion for avoiding responding 1NT on less than the "modern" 8-10 points is to bid a 3-card major demonstrates what appalling advice Smith/Seagram are giving.

Look at it this way: in a normal constructive sequence, we sometimes have to bid 1NT on 6 points because we are too strong to pass. Opposite a take-out double we have to respond with zero points, yet can't bid 1NT with fewer than eight! This high requirement for responding in no trumps when we have no suit to bid has no basis in logic. Playing in 3-3 fits is no fun for any player, but particularly novices.

[barsikb]

Thank you to all of the BBO experts for so much information and thoughts. Will take me time to study every post. I'll get back with more questions SteveMoe, thank you for the cincybridge.com So much to learn from there, too

[barsikb]

Thank you to all of the BBO experts for so much information and thoughts. Will take me time to study every post. I'll get back with more questions SteveMoe, thank you for the cincybridge.com So much to learn from there, too

[WGF_Flame]

About The 1NT, mike lawrence explains in his book about take out double that the bid can vary from 4 to 11 depending on the opening,
stronger over 1C weaker over 1S.