[Lord Molyb]

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At IMPs. Should north offered a 4♠ bid?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Lord Molyb, on 2013-January-06, 13:05, said:

Should north offered a 4♠ bid?

No... I'm surprised North didn't sign-off immediately after finding out about "wasted" ♦ values .

[RSClyde]

South had no reason to rush a signoff. He has a good hand and should cue over 3♥. It's still hard: showing the stiff ace seems to have set you back. What was 3♥?

[Lord Molyb]

3♥ showed better than minimum gf response.

[Fluffy]

south is crazy and gets all the blame for the 4♥ bid, north's 3♥ bid is agressive already, asking him to do anything else is ludicrous

[Cyberyeti]

Fluffy, on 2013-January-06, 15:06, said:

south is crazy and gets all the blame for the 4♥ bid, north's 3♥ bid is agressive already, asking him to do anything else is ludicrous

Even if S bids 4♣ over 3♥, how do you fancy distinguishing S's hand from xxx, AKQxx, x, AJxx where slam is not great ?

[Fluffy]

that slam looks great to me, almost 50% on spade lead (most likelly, but not totally obvious) and good on others.

anyway, I jus said that ATB is pretty clear, north has none, so all lies in south.

[Cyberyeti]

Fluffy, on 2013-January-06, 15:34, said:

that slam looks great to me, almost 50% on spade lead (most likelly, but not totally obvious) and good on others.

anyway, I jus said that ATB is pretty clear, north has none, so all lies in south.

I think a little with South, but I'm not clear that NS will ever bid this slam. Say you don't play any gadgets like srs/friv 3N or LTTC.

S bids 4♣ over 3♠, N doesn't cue diamonds with KQ opposite a presumed singleton, does he really go beyond 4♥ having already semi-overbid 3♥ ?

We would get there because we can pinpoint the stiff A♦ as 3N for us is not srs/friv but replaces the most expensive cue, so in this auction would show a stiff A as we bid 4♦ over 2N with a void.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-06, 16:39, said:

....as we bid 4♦ over 2N with a void.

These days most would interpret that as a 2nd 5 card suit.

[bigbenvic]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-January-06, 16:47, said:

These days most would interpret that as a 2nd 5 card suit.

Should you use Jacoby with a stiff club as North?

I would splinter, so auction might go
1h 3c
3d* 3s* (*cues)
4c* 5h**
6h

**After hearing partner has both minor aces you only need solid trumps for 6 (AKQ and grand is possible) so 5h asks about trump quality, pass with 1 of top 3, bid 6 with 2 and with all 3 show another feature.

So I blame north for not splintering (unless they don't play splinters) say 50%

And then I blame south for 50% for just bidding game over 3h with a suitable hand for going further! A six loser hand is worth a kick after partner GF's and shows a mild interest in more than game.

[Cyberyeti]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-January-06, 16:47, said:

These days most would interpret that as a 2nd 5 card suit.

Wasn't sure as I don't actually show shortage first up, I would be bidding 3♣ not 3♦, was just adapting from the problem as given.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

This is a very rare deal... with both hands containing a stiff high honor ( in different suits ) AND each partner holding the OTHER high honor . If either partner shows shortness, I would think the prudent thing for the other would be to sign-off in game.
Even seeing both hands, it seems awfully lucky to make 12 tricks.

[bigbenvic]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-January-06, 18:45, said:

This is a very rare deal... with both hands containing a stiff high honor ( in different suits ) AND each partner holding the OTHER high honor . If either partner shows shortness, I would think the prudent thing for the other would be to sign-off in game.
Even seeing both hands, it seems awfully lucky to make 12 tricks.

I disagree with that. 29 HCP and fitting shapes ie 1st round control of the 2 short suits, it matters not which Kings they have. Imagine swapping the minor suit Kings out and putting in the Ks and QJ clubs (to balance the points) you now have 4s 4 trumps (losing the Ace) 2 minor Aces for 10 and only need 2 club ruffs for 12 tricks.

The whole point of showing singletons is to find these 'lucky' slams, finding no losers in these short suits Especially when 1 hand knopws they have 9+ trumps is a green light for me, not a red one.

I agree that if I find I have KQ opposite a singleton I'm sad (wasted values) but not when I find out that he has stiff Ace.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-06, 17:16, said:

Wasn't sure as I don't actually show shortage first up, I would be bidding 3♣ not 3♦, was just adapting from the problem as given.

Actually, I've been working on that type of system -- showing a 4 ( or 5 ) card 2nd suit FIRST ..... inspired by ahydra's post this last December : http://www.bridgebas...nt/page__st__20

After showing that second suit ( which is headed by at least an A or K AND guaranteeing shortness elsewhere, then a relay would ask for the shortness suit.

[Codo]

I still hate splintering aces... so all blame to south. And 4 ♥ was the second worst bid....

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

The problem is the 3D bid, it may have been the best av. bid,
in which case the blame goes to system.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Lord Molyb, on 2013-January-06, 13:05, said:

---

Followup to my post # 14:
South
1H - 2NT!
3C! = 4 or 5 card ♣ suit w/ A or K AND shortness in ♦ or ♠
...... - 3D! ( next step asks )
??
3H! = ♠ shortness
3S! = ♦ shortness, bad hand
3NT! = ♦ shortness, ♠-Ctrl, NO 2nd ♣ card ( A, K or Q )
4C! = ♦ shortness, NO ♠-Ctrl, but 2nd ♣ card
4D! = ♦ shortness and BOTH ♠-Ctrl AND 2nd ♣ card
After:
3S! - 4H ( Responder might surmise that opener has the stiff ♦A for his opening bid... but even so, there seems to be too many losers.... and especially so if missing the ♦Ace ) .

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2013-January-17, 11:49

[lalldonn]

Who cares about 3♦, that's not what caused this. North bid well and 4♥ was LOL.

[RSClyde]

Why are people saying that this isn't a good slam? It's certainly not cold as there is some handling, but I'd definitely want to be there, and no it doesn't depend on a spade finesse.

[ggwhiz]

In my partnership we hate 3♦ and would bid 3nt to show slight/control rich extras and get to slam pretty easy.

That said, on the given auction the 4♥ bid is a bad joke.