[shevek]

Assuming you can live with

(1♥) - 1NT as 15-18, &

(1♥) - no - (no) - 1NT as 11-14

what are the higher equivalents, if balanced?


(2♥) - 2NT, &

(2♥) - no - (no) - 2NT ?


(3♥) - 3NT, &

(3♥) - no - (no) - 3NT ?

TIA

[Stephen Tu]

Over the higher preempts, you pretty much have to bid NT on 15+-18 or so, whether direct or balancing. At the 3 level you will also be bidding 3nt on somewhat unbalanced hands rather frequently due to lack of options (e.g. you have good suit, stoppers, really don't want partner jumping to 4 of a major over a double).

Why that strength? Because if you don't overcall with that strength you'll get robbed blind. Partner with his average 8-10 count won't be able to compete and you'll have missed game. Of course sometimes partner of the preemptor has everything else, partner is broke and you'll get killed, but you have to bid on average.

As for balancing vs. direct, one shouldn't shade strength nearly as much as one does over one level bids, for any possible call. I pretty much play both positions the same, stretch to bid/double a bit only if short in the preempt suit. Reasons:
- Over 1x-p-p-?, responder is broke, your side rates to have at least close to half the strength. After a preempt, responder can have considerable strength, just misfit, and may be hoping you bid.
- They are already 1 or 2 levels higher, easier to beat than a 1 level contract
- If you shade your actions, your ranges get wider and balancer's partner doesn't have as much room to raise/invite below game. This leads to more guessing.

Also, over 1M-p-p-, many prefer a stronger range, maybe 12-16, because it's rather awkward to bid 2nt on a 15 count after 1h-p-p-x-p-2c-p-?, you'll frequently be too high.

[CarlRitner]

(2♥) - no - (no) - 2NT ?

I was taught this is strong, 20-22 HCPs.

[wank]

CarlRitner, on 2012-October-03, 18:21, said:

(2♥) - no - (no) - 2NT ?

I was taught this is strong, 20-22 HCPs.

by whom, your dad?

[Codo]

2 NT is 15-18 in both chairs, 3 NT is to play- and is often a long minor with stopper(s) in Heart and some stuff here and there... If it is balanced, I would play it much stronger then 2 NT- 15-18 would ask for trouble too often, so I would hold a balanced 18-22 or so- maybe even 20-22. But I still wait for such a hand to come...

[PhilKing]

It can be annoying when both partners refrain from overcalling on a balanced 19 ...

[CarlRitner]

wank, on 2012-October-03, 20:10, said:

by whom, your dad?

Sorry, I looked at it three times and saw a jump bid.
I did it again until I smacked myself pretty hard.

I need to adjust my meds....

[shevek]

The particular issue with 2NT in passout seat is wrong-siding via Lebensohl.

After (2♥) - no - (no) ,

♠Qxx ♥AQ ♦KQJxx ♣Axx

doesn't want to double and hear 2NT "negative".

To avoid this, maybe best to bid 2NT or 3NT on all balanced hands with a stopper.
Say 14-17 bids 2NT, 18+ shrugs and bids 3NT.

13 a bit rich but don't want to defend their 6-1 fit with twin 14-counts.

[PhilKing]

shevek, on 2012-October-04, 20:12, said:

The particular issue with 2NT in passout seat is wrong-siding via Lebensohl.

After (2♥) - no - (no) ,

♠Qxx ♥AQ ♦KQJxx ♣Axx

doesn't want to double and hear 2NT "negative".

I don't think lebensohl after a 4th seat double is optimal. If you have a normal take-out double, considering the absence of a raise, partner usually has three or more cards in their suit with his honours sitting over the suit.

Partner's most common hand type is balanced with about 3.5 hearts and say 8-11 points, which is what I believe 2NT should show.

I agree your example hand just shrugs and bids 3NT and I like the 14-17 range. But you can double and bid 3NT to bring spades back in to play with three or four of them playing my way without worrying about wrong-siding 3NT.