[NickRW]

Too many flaws for me to preempt - and its a rule of 20, four control hand. What's so wrong with 1♦?!

Now swap the hearts over into clubs and I'm preempting - four.

[phil_20686]

ColdCrayon, on 2012-July-12, 21:44, said:

I was taught that 5-bids and greater are not preemptive at all, but declarations that you believe you can make the bid with your hand alone. It's not quite strong enough for that.

Shortly after people discovered that the world was in fact round.

[phil_20686]

Anyone who would pre-empt wit three first round controls is mad imo. You ar enot even in third seat. Your void is not even in a major. I mean, are you sad to be defending 5c with two bullets and a void? Or 4M when partner might will lead your void? Incredible to preempt with this hand.

[the hog]

phil_20686, on 2012-July-13, 18:38, said:

Anyone who would pre-empt wit three first round controls is mad imo. You ar enot even in third seat. Your void is not even in a major. I mean, are you sad to be defending 5c with two bullets and a void? Or 4M when partner might will lead your void? Incredible to preempt with this hand.

Even more incredible to open 1D. So I guess you would pass? What is your action if 4S by the opps comes around to you after your pass?

[mike777]

phil_20686, on 2012-July-13, 18:38, said:

Anyone who would pre-empt wit three first round controls is mad imo. You ar enot even in third seat. Your void is not even in a major. I mean, are you sad to be defending 5c with two bullets and a void? Or 4M when partner might will lead your void? Incredible to preempt with this hand.

I can still defend after 4d

[SteveMoe]

Zelandakh, on 2012-July-13, 01:03, said:

Which parts of the posts from wclass and myself were you disagreeing with? It seems all 4 of us were in broad agreement.

Yes! You are right - that makes 5 of us at least...

[ColdCrayon]

phil_20686, on 2012-July-13, 18:35, said:

Shortly after people discovered that the world was in fact round.

Never, ever get conceited about Bridge.

Anyway, I was trying to help and clarify my understanding at the same time. Could someone other than that guy explain what's "standard" for 5-bids, if not an attempt to make?

[SteveMoe]

Any 2-loser hand with 3-4 Quick tricks would not open 5 of a minor. With 11 tricks in hand, folks will make some forcing opening bid then jump to what thye think they can make. Some will open a highly distributional hand at the 1 level (trusting that opponents will intervene or partner will respond) and jump to game.

Disciplined preempts will not have enough defense to set 4 of a major if partner can contribute one defensive trick and will not have a second suit that could play for game opposite a fitting partner. They will have enough length and intermediates in the suit to be within 1, 2 or 3 tricks of the game (unfav, equal, fav vulnerability). It is possible a 5 minor opening will happen on a 10 trick hand, but not with as many as 4 quick tricks (strong hands with 10 winners open 2♣). Even 3 defensive tricks is too much as their 4M game goes down if pard can contribute one defensive trick.

Most players have defaults that 3N, 4M and 5m are to play. 5M however is the special case that commonly asks for a missing A or K in M for partner to bid 6M. Some might find this old fashioned and play the 1-2-3 loser preempt here too.

Choices!

[phil_20686]

ColdCrayon, on 2012-July-21, 13:22, said:

Anyway, I was trying to help and clarify my understanding at the same time. Could someone other than that guy explain what's "standard" for 5-bids, if not an attempt to make?

Second in all red AK to nine and out seems about right.( x x AKxxxxxxx xx, say). In first and second seat opening preempts with opening values is generally very bad, as partner may have a good hand, and will never judge to raise you correctly. In third seat It can be ok to preempt with a heavy hand in a minor, if 5m and 3N do not seem likely.

It would be even worse to open 5d with 11 tricks. You are only one ace away from slam if you think you are making 5m in your own hand, why would you give up hope of reaching it by preempting yourself? Sometimes it can be right to open a specific ace ask, like 4N with an 11 card diamond suit or something.

five level bids are pre-empts like any other, and attempt to pressure the opponents into a mistake without exposing yourself to undue risk. At green vs red in third seat - Jxxx KQJxxxxx x would certainly be enough to risk 5d's, although opinions differ on where the boundaries lie.

[dake50]

Didn't find 1S in this poll.
That likely caters to they own this hand.
I will be doubled in 3D,4D,5D.
Danged when partner doesn't take this joke.