[dickiegera]

In ACBL Land I always thought if the bidding goes with no interference

1♦-1♠-1NT-3♣ shows a hand with 4 Spades and 6 Clubs and less than invitational values.

When partner and I had this bidding sequence I was asked to explain by a person with over 8000 pts .
I said it was the normal way to show a 4-6 hand with 8 or so pts. She told me that she never hear of such an auction and we must alert the bid/bids

Am I wrong?

Thank you

[Phil]

Common? Used to be.

Alertable? Yes.

Never heard of? (Shrug).

[Statto]

(deleted)

[Alexcl]

dickiegera, on 2012-June-29, 16:13, said:

In ACBL Land I always thought if the bidding goes with no interference

1♦-1♠-1NT-3♣ shows a hand with 4 Spades and 6 Clubs and less than invitational values.

I've seen that treatment described in "Better bidding with Bergen" (vol 1) in the chapter about checkback Stayman, where 2♣ is checkback and 3♣ is a sign-off.

[akwoo]

dickiegera, on 2012-June-29, 16:13, said:

In ACBL Land I always thought if the bidding goes with no interference

1♦-1♠-1NT-3♣ shows a hand with 4 Spades and 6 Clubs and less than invitational values.

When partner and I had this bidding sequence I was asked to explain by a person with over 8000 pts .
I said it was the normal way to show a 4-6 hand with 8 or so pts. She told me that she never hear of such an auction and we must alert the bid/bids

Am I wrong?

Thank you

I think it's common to systemically pass 1N and be in a possibly slightly inferior contract on this type of hand, believing that there are better uses for both 2♣ (some form of checkback) and 3♣ (5-5 with some slam interest).

This is especially true at matchpoint scoring, where 1N+2 scores better than 3C+3, cancelling out some of the otherwise expected loss.

[blackshoe]

dickiegera, on 2012-June-29, 16:13, said:

I said it was the normal way to show a 4-6 hand with 8 or so pts. She told me that she never hear of such an auction and we must alert the bid/bids

What this person has or has not heard of is irrelevant. Her instruction to you is out of line. I would have called the TD and asked *him* if it must be alerted. If she stuck her oar into that, and he said "yes", I would ask him to show me the regulation that says so.

Note: I am not saying it doesn't require an alert - I'm saying it doesn't require an alert just because some random player with 8000 (or 80000, or 8, for that matter) masterpoints says so.

[Bbradley62]

blackshoe, on 2012-July-06, 18:45, said:

I would have called the TD and asked *him* if it must be alerted. If she stuck her oar into that, and he said "yes", I would ask him to show me the regulation that says so.

Seriously? You want all future rulings to go against you? Get on with the hand and discuss it with him later in private, if you must.

[blackshoe]

Bbradley62, on 2012-July-06, 19:12, said:

You want all future rulings to go against you?

I do not think that ACBL tournament directors are that unprofessional. If they are, then there is something seriously wrong with the system.

[mikl_plkcc]

dickiegera, on 2012-June-29, 16:13, said:

In ACBL Land I always thought if the bidding goes with no interference

1♦-1♠-1NT-3♣ shows a hand with 4 Spades and 6 Clubs and less than invitational values.

When partner and I had this bidding sequence I was asked to explain by a person with over 8000 pts .
I said it was the normal way to show a 4-6 hand with 8 or so pts. She told me that she never hear of such an auction and we must alert the bid/bids

Am I wrong?

Thank you

I think it shows 5 clubs and 5 spades with game values! If you don't want to go game, you just bid 2♣ in place of 3♣.

This post has been edited by mikl_plkcc: 2012-July-09, 20:49

[Vampyr]

mikl_plkcc, on 2012-July-07, 08:19, said:

I think it shows 5 clubs and 5 spades with game values! If you don't want to go game, you just bid 2♣ afterwards.

Afterwards? 2♣ will be insufficient by then.

[Bbradley62]

mikl_plkcc, on 2012-July-07, 08:19, said:

If you don't want to go game, you just bid 2♣ afterwards.

Vampyr, on 2012-July-07, 13:56, said:

Afterwards? 2♣ will be insufficient by then.

It appears that mikl is playing SAYC, or some other system that does not include NMF. OP did not specify.

[gszes]

"standard" bridge bidding is based primarity on natural bids using jumps (or the
lack thereof) to express length and strength. Over time some bids have lost their
natural meaning due to common practice and utility. These "non-standard" bids
have become the norm in ACBL tournaments and do not require an alert
(bids like 2c normal stayman for ex-------------garbage stayman still would require
an alert)

The 3c bid is a reasonable treatment but it is not natural and has not gained the
level of acceptance deemed necessary by the ACBL to eliminate the need to
alert. When such a situation occurs it is probably best policy to apologize for your
oversight and take the time (later) to determine the need (or lack thereof) to alert.

You will gain assurance that you were right or learn when you were wrong and
the game will remain much more pleasant (a huge goal when playing a GAME)
for all.