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Your Turn topic 3 bidding

#1 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 16:03



WC pd and opps, teamgame, you play 2/1. 2 is not a constructive raise.

I got this wrong as south, what is your bid and tell us if you would make a move previous round.
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#2 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 17:04

4
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#3 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 17:46

View PostMrAce, on 2012-June-29, 16:03, said:



WC pd and opps, teamgame, you play 2/1. 2 is not a constructive raise.

I got this wrong as south, what is your bid and tell us if you would make a move previous round.


HOW not constructive was 2@h, what did the redouble show (defensive hand?), what would a jump to 3@h have shown over 1@h, and what would a 3@h over the double have shown? and do you ahve any agreement about what bids other than 3@h means in the balancing seat. That is, would 2nt be spade shortness? 3@C club shortness, etc, or would any suit bid be help suit game try?

Don't know enough about your methods to venture a guess as what to do here. Just opposite my non-constructive raise, you would never consider bidding again with this hand.
--Ben--

#4 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 17:54

View Postinquiry, on 2012-June-29, 17:46, said:

HOW not constructive was 2@h, what did the redouble show (defensive hand?), what would a jump to 3@h have shown over 1@h, and what would a 3@h over the double have shown? and do you ahve any agreement about what bids other than 3@h means in the balancing seat. That is, would 2nt be spade shortness? 3@C club shortness, etc, or would any suit bid be help suit game try?

Don't know enough about your methods to venture a guess as what to do here. Just opposite my non-constructive raise, you would never consider bidding again with this hand.


-2 is just regular 2. We dont bid NT with fit unless we have limit 3 card raise.

-Redouble show a very good 2 bid.

-3 over 1 would be limit raise 10-11 ish 4 card support.

-3 over the double would be totally competitive with 4 card support, so this one ( original auction) is sort of showing some meat in case we wanna DBL them at 3 level and/or in case i change my mind and bid game.

-No we dont have any agreements for other bids except than 3 in balancing seat. We didnt have any of teh agreements above except than 2 not being constructive. Those were my assumptions.
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#5 User is offline   Yu18772 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 18:01

Partner seems to upgrade his hand given the auction, whats the best possible hand he can have for 2?
I would try 4 I guess, but totally prepared to take the blame for a minus score.
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#6 User is offline   yin970902 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 18:12

IMO,pass,
To finish 4 Game Contract,need A and K orA and J and K. Especially,north has only two spades.But,2 is not a constructive raise.
Maybe north has a 4-hearts suit and a long ,bad diamond suit such as Jxxxx.
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#7 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 18:21

View Postyin970902, on 2012-June-29, 18:12, said:

......But,2 is not a constructive raise....


Yes but now we know, after the redouble, that he had a constructive and obviously max of a 2 bid.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#8 User is offline   tolvyrj 

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Posted 2012-June-29, 18:38

Pass. Prd must be max. for his 2 raise, but still his original bid was 2, i dont belive we have game here.
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#9 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 00:16

4H easily.
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 04:46

It seems inconsistent to bid game now. We didn't make a game-try after 2, and we didn't bid 3 over 2. For game to make, we'll need partner to be able to deal with our club losers. If we're considering bidding game now, we should have taken the opportunity to ask him if he had the right hand.

With the bidding as it's gone, I think pass is clearly correct. We still have a singleton king and we still have terrible spots in our side-suit. If we're missing K it's likely to be offside. xx AJx xxxx Kxxx would be nice, but xx AJx Axxxx xxx is rather more likely.
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#11 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 05:34

Agree with gnasher, plus partner could have tried a minor suit bid instead of just going directly to 3S. I guess partner could have xx, Axx, AQxx, xxxx but they also might have made a limit raise with that red at IMPs?

I think partner just wanted to smack them if they bid a minor, and since they bid spades he opted to just compete instead. That having been said, the above hand is consistent with their bidding so maybe we should be upgrading based on that and bidding 4.
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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#12 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 07:22

Am I looking at the kiss-of-death Spade holding?
Easy defense to get a couple Spade tricks and
signal what next.
I'm going tame Pass.
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#13 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 09:42

View Postgnasher, on 2012-June-30, 04:46, said:

It seems inconsistent to bid game now. We didn't make a game-try after 2, and we didn't bid 3 over 2. For game to make, we'll need partner to be able to deal with our club losers. If we're considering bidding game now, we should have taken the opportunity to ask him if he had the right hand.

With the bidding as it's gone, I think pass is clearly correct. We still have a singleton king and we still have terrible spots in our side-suit. If we're missing K it's likely to be offside. xx AJx xxxx Kxxx would be nice, but xx AJx Axxxx xxx is rather more likely.


Partner also redoubled, which suggests some help in these shaky minors? And he competed on his own, so he shouldn't have xxx of trump. Plus the opponents have told he he doesn't have much, if any spade wastage. My biggest worry is trumps are 4-1.

I'm going. If it makes I get to pwn my opponents for the rest of the set for balancing me into game.

(Its 2012, is it OK to still say pwn?(
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#14 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 10:55

I am going, I need partner to have a red ace and the K of clubs to go with a doubleton spade - seems reasonable enough on the bidding. Agree with Gnasher that I should have bid 3 over 2 to get a better read.
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#15 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 12:12

I passed, before i did that i thought about some shapes pd may have to make game, i came close, but not enough. Pd had

Kx
Jxx
Qxxxx
KJx

Pass would be right decision if for example he didnt have J in the original hand. Or if he had Kxx (I didnt believe opponents neccesarilly have 8 card spades in this auction)

But anyway it was close decision that costed us 10 imps. Those who bid the game got it right.

Would you start 2 with this or would you make a 3 card LR ?

I actually am more interested in your opinions about my previous pass over 2. Would you take another action ? It seems close to me.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#16 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 12:39

View PostMrAce, on 2012-June-30, 12:12, said:

I passed, before i did that i thought about some shapes pd may have to make game, i came close, but not enough. Pd had

Kx
Jxx
Qxxxx
KJx

Pass would be right decision if for example he didnt have J in the original hand. Or if he had Kxx (I didnt believe opponents neccesarilly have 8 card spades in this auction)

But anyway it was close decision that costed us 10 imps. Those who bid the game got it right.

Would you start 2 with this or would you make a 3 card LR ?

I actually am more interested in your opinions about my previous pass over 2. Would you take another action ? It seems close to me.



Another factor: If partner had doubled 2S, would it be penalty or cooperative? How about your own double vs pass vs bidding?

I think you can definitely read partner for a max of 2S on this auction; you would have expected a pass or double from his hand with 3+ spades (like you got with your hand and 3+ spades).

I think partner's bidding is close to being a 3 card limit raise. Basically, you have 2 expected cover cards in the kings, and potential cover cards in the doubleton spade or the Q of diamonds, as well as a useful chip in the J of hearts. I think its close enough that I wouldn't care what partner called it, but that having aggressive opponents who like to compete past 2H would put me on the 2H camp - you frequently have an opportunity to show a max later in the bidding, like you did here.

It would probably also matter to me what type of hands we open and typically raise with. If we raise aggressively, I might have to put this in the 3 card limit raise. If we open aggressively, I would be more inclined to put this in 2H. If we open and raise aggressively, then I would like a systemic tool to deal with this hand so that we can show a bad 3 card limit raise and stay at the 2 level. I have included those hands in 2 in my main partnership, since we both open and raise aggressively, but that's a mid-chart solution.
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#17 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 12:40

View PostMrAce, on 2012-June-30, 12:12, said:

I passed, before i did that i thought about some shapes pd may have to make game, i came close, but not enough. Pd had

Kx
Jxx
Qxxxx
KJx

But anyway it was close decision that costed us 10 imps. Those who bid the game got it right.


Why didn't you lose 4 tricks :

2s, 1h, 1d
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#18 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 12:48

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-June-30, 12:40, said:

Why didn't you lose 4 tricks :

2s, 1h, 1d


A was on, 3rd spade goes on
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#19 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2012-June-30, 15:40

Im wondering if the main purpose of the XX penalizing them or just showing a maximum for finding a close game ?

Maybe im wrong but I tend to think its mostly to penalize them, so I would expect 3 things for the XX

1-maximum
2- fairly balanced (maximum based on HCP not on distribution)
3- almost always xxx or Kx or better in S (its pointless and dangerous to XX with 2 baby in Spades)

On this hand It doesnt change a lot of thing since we are lacking a little something for doubling 2S but its easy to see hands where 2S is down 2 and game as no play.
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#20 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-July-01, 02:54

Your partner misbid. On the given auction pass is clear.
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