[Hanoi5]

It's not common for Advanced and Expert players to make a big mistake. This (and the fact that they commit less mistakes) is exactly what distinguishes them form beginners and advancing players in general. However I'm sure some mistakes slip from time to time or that they committed the sort I'm about to show and have some way of coping with them. (Or maybe not, and once you've messed up there's no way to recover).

Say you hold:

♠865
♥65
♦KT93
♣Q753

Playing teams, red vs white, bidding starts at your left:

1NT (15-17)- Pa- 2♦ -

Now, you know it can be really bad but you decide to try and get your partner to lead a diamond. Perhaps you hit the jackpot and find partner with good diamonds or the Q in dummy.

1NT-Pa-2♦-X
XX (I have no problem playing here)- Pa -Pa - ???

Is there ANYTHING you can do? Can your partner do something? You can't get time back. You can't change your previous behaviour. Is self-flagelation and not doing this again the only solution?

[MrAce]

Hanoi5, on 2011-September-09, 17:09, said:

Is there ANYTHING you can do? Can your partner do something? You can't get time back. You can't change your previous behaviour. Is self-flagelation and not doing this again the only solution?

Q - Is there ANYTHING you can do?
A - I don't know, we can try but outcome will be very bad most of the time whatever we choose to do.

Q- Can your partner do something?
A- No, he already passed.

Q -You can't get time back. You can't change your previous behaviour. Is self-flagelation and not doing this again the only solution?
A- YES!

I would not DBL to begin with. Pd is not a moron and you should have faith in him/her. KTxx is not only dangerous when they redouble, but also dangerous because u are affecting your pd's lead and there is no significant reason for you to decide that ♦ lead is the best yet. Maybe they would end up in 3 NT and pd has 4-5 ♣ that he was planning to lead etc etc.

Look at the amount of risk you take to show this lead, and look at the suit that you want pd to lead and tell me if it worths or not ?

[Phil]

At MPs, double really isn't that bad. At IMPs its horrible.

[the hog]

Hanoi5, on 2011-September-09, 17:09, said:

It's not common for Advanced and Expert players to make a big mistake. This (and the fact that they commit less mistakes) is exactly what distinguishes them form beginners and advancing players in general. However I'm sure some mistakes slip from time to time or that they committed the sort I'm about to show and have some way of coping with them. (Or maybe not, and once you've messed up there's no way to recover).

Say you hold:

♠865
♥65
♦KT93
♣Q753

Playing teams, red vs white, bidding starts at your left:

1NT (15-17)- Pa- 2♦ -

Now, you know it can be really bad but you decide to try and get your partner to lead a diamond. Perhaps you hit the jackpot and find partner with good diamonds or the Q in dummy.

1NT-Pa-2♦-X
XX (I have no problem playing here)- Pa -Pa - ???

Is there ANYTHING you can do? Can your partner do something? You can't get time back. You can't change your previous behaviour. Is self-flagelation and not doing this again the only solution?

There certainly IS something you can do. You can learn from your idiocy and not make the same mistake again.

[jmcw]

Doubling artificial bids for a lead is often abused IMO. Your example is a classic (perhaps even extreme) example.
The risks are numerous, eg.

You might get RDBL with little or no chance to make.
If left to lead naturally partner may have a better lead.
You may help the opponents develop a better line of play or even a better strain.
Partner may play you for a holding you don't actually have.
etc.

In your example you do not know the final strain, partner leads a ♦ vs 3NT. They make 5, on a ♣ lead you were beating it. partner had KJTxx ♣.
At any form of scoring X with this hand is insane. 5 points!, a ratty 4 card suit! with no outside entry!, just astonishing.

I see no way no recover you may have committed suicide at teams

[rogerclee]

I don't think there is much you can do. First of all, nv,

2DXX= is 560
2DXX+1 is 760

so it's not a total disaster if you can somehow hold them to making 2 (lose 4) or 3 (lose 8) against 3N. Trying to run to something is not very smart, you are vulnerable and can easily go for a giant number.

[nigel_k]

Obviously don't double on that hand, but there will be plenty of other hands where double is the percentage action but they can nevertheless redouble and punish you. It just isn't that hard for them to make eight tricks when they have plenty of high card points and LHO has four decent diamonds. The main thing to learn from this is to make sure you nail the opponents as often as possible when they make these doubles.

[ArtK78]

Pass 2♦xx and hope the result is not as big a disaster as it appears to be.

[gszes]

thank goodness there is no xxx card saying sp i was just kidding
about my original x can you please take us to somewhere a tad less
ridiculous than 3d xx????

LEARN and use your free will to not make such egregious errors:)

good post:)

btw agree with majority pass and pary and have a HUGE "SP" ready

[gordontd]

I remember a hand from about 15 years ago at the Young Chelsea on a Friday night (IMP pairs) when about half the field played in 2♦xx +2, after some players thought it was a good idea to make a lead-directing double of 2♦ with something like KJxxx & a card.

[mcphee]

Lets hope your partner had a sense of humor, no doubt the opps did. Perhaps a good thing for you to get punished and they make a few over tricks. This sort of action is similar to the time you went for 1400 making the bad over call, remember that?

What to do. Easy, you look absolutely puzzled (this will not be hard for you)asking how can you re-dble my pass? WHAT? Next, OMG UNDO. Last, (this is your last hope) when director arrives break down in tears,(most fall for that). If none of this works, at least after this rukus they have something else to talk about.

Now for the good stuff. You have found out what happens when you get BUSY and act without considering one of the most vital questions, what can happen next?

[ggwhiz]

The size of the disaster is inversly proportional to the chances of you doing it again.

I wager this one will be large.

[han]

You have found out what happens when you get BUSY

Are you a religious man McPhee?

[Free]

Hanoi5, on 2011-September-09, 17:09, said:

Is there ANYTHING you can do?

Play as good as you can to control the damage, apologize afterwards, and learn from your mistake.

Hanoi5, on 2011-September-09, 17:09, said:

Can your partner do something?

The only thing he can do is sit quietly and hope you apologize.

[Zelandakh]

The most important thing you can do imho, and also something that separates the top players from the rest of us, is to stay focused, play the hand through without giving the game away to declarer, and then to move onto the next board without letting the mistake affect your further play.

[Cyberyeti]

Reminds me of a hand from a match years ago with the wildest last set I've ever seen. We were (correctly) confident that in 8 boards we'd shipped 30 IMPS out but considerably more in.

I opened 1♥ on my usual filthy 10 count. The man on my left looked at his 3055 opening hand and opted to pass. Partner bid 2N (value raise to 3♥ or better) pass and I bid 3♥ to show filth, LHO decided it was worth a double. Partner counted again, still got to 17 and redoubled. RHO eyed up his 3532 yarborough and ? Well his best option was to pass -960 which with 100 coming from 4♥-1 from the other table is no bargain, but he bid 3♠ for -1700.

There are times to stop digging, I think this hand is one of them.

Agree with Zelandakh's comment, although it's arguable whether it's easier to do this when you've done something ludicrous or partner has, both of you need to be able to move on.

[Onedown]

mcphee, on 2011-September-11, 04:56, said:

Lets hope your partner had a sense of humor, no doubt the opps did. Perhaps a good thing for you to get punished and they make a few over tricks. This sort of action is similar to the time you went for 1400 making the bad over call, remember that?

What to do. Easy, you look absolutely puzzled (this will not be hard for you)asking how can you re-dble my pass? WHAT? Next, OMG UNDO. Last, (this is your last hope) when director arrives break down in tears,(most fall for that). If none of this works, at least after this rukus they have something else to talk about.

Now for the good stuff. You have found out what happens when you get BUSY and act without considering one of the most vital questions, what can happen next?

Some actions are more egregious than others and one causes the action of the other. Mine would be the former, an action caused by the latter, my partners double of 2 ♦. Regardless of where the auction ended, if I were playing live, I would call the Director and ask him if he would please try and get a replacement for me. I would calmly explain to him that if I stay I am afraid there would be disastrous results as my body would start reacting like a dirty bomb about to explode. If I was playing on BBO I would simply pull the plug, and if asked later "my net went down"!

[MrAce]

Deleted

[mycroft]

One of Jeff Goldsmith's Imperious Rules of Bridge is: "The difference between -800 and -790 isn't worth a lot of effort. Don't expect partner to congratulate you for the improvement." When you oops, do your best to get any result from it, and learn from it - the chance you will be able to unoops is almost always minimal compared to the chance "keep digging" leads to exactly that.