[babalu1997]

I play One sided drury: I never open really silly hands in 3rd. They will have 2 tricks and, if low in points, a very long major.

But people like to play drury, and yesterday i discovered I did not know what to do to handle a response of 2 h.

Had it been me responding, give the 2 aces, extra trump and ruffing value i would have answered 2 diamonds drury( a limit raise).

I had a reasonable hand, so perhaps I should have bid 3h, as it was i passed, only bad result in the game and we tanked 3rd, we would have beeen in the running for a win, but this is the hand, how should the bidding go?

---

thanks

[jillybean]

Why didn't your partner use drury?    I agree, I would invite with your hand.

[Bbradley62]

If you play that Drury = Limit Raise, which you implied in your post, then from East's perspective Drury is irrelevant to this auction. Partner chose not to make a limit raise, and it doesn't matter whether the limit raise would have been 2♣, 2♦ or 3♥. You should have responded exactly the same as if you had opened 1♥ in first seat and partner had bid 2♥.

[nigel_k]

I don't understand this idea that Drury has to be a limit raise. Responder is limited by their failure to open, there is a ton of space, and opponents have both passed. Just widen the range of Drury so that it can include this hand, or even a good 8 HCP with only three trumps. Opener can still bid 2♦ with game interest and responder sign off in 2♥ on the weaker hands.

[quiddity]

Assuming this is matchpoints, I would bid drury as West. Two bullets, an extra trump, and a ruffing value add up to a limit raise imo.
I would not invite over 2♥ as East.

[losercover]

We play constuctive raises over first and second seat openers, I don't see a reason for not making one as a passed hand. Opener would make a short suit game try in diamonds and we would be in game.

[aguahombre]

Someone needs to rethink what to do with five trumps when opener also shows five of them. If I am the one who needs to rethink, fine. But for now, I get to the level equal to the number of trumps, one way or the other.

[Bbradley62]

aguahombre, on 2011-April-04, 16:23, said:

Someone needs to rethink what to do with five trumps when opener also shows five of them. If I am the one who needs to rethink, fine. But for now, I get to the level equal to the number of trumps, one way or the other.

I always go to (at least) game with 5-card support for partner's opened major, but why is this conversation part of this thread?

[aguahombre]

Bbradley62, on 2011-April-04, 17:40, said:

I always go to (at least) game with 5-card support for partner's opened major, but why is this conversation part of this thread?

because West didn't do that. Then he changed the hand after the OP. Now it is only four.

[Elianna]

aguahombre, on 2011-April-04, 16:23, said:

Someone needs to rethink what to do with five trumps when opener also shows five of them. If I am the one who needs to rethink, fine. But for now, I get to the level equal to the number of trumps, one way or the other.

The ten only counts as one card, not two.

[MrAce]

losercover, on 2011-April-04, 15:56, said:

We play constuctive raises over first and second seat openers, I don't see a reason for not making one as a passed hand. Opener would make a short suit game try in diamonds and we would be in game.

Because hiding the fit is a very bad idea when coming from pass with non constructive hands and start 1 NT(for some of us even when not coming from pass)

[cherdano]

Bbradley62, on 2011-April-04, 06:34, said:

If you play that Drury = Limit Raise, which you implied in your post, then from East's perspective Drury is irrelevant to this auction. Partner chose not to make a limit raise, and it doesn't matter whether the limit raise would have been 2♣, 2♦ or 3♥. You should have responded exactly the same as if you had opened 1♥ in first seat and partner had bid 2♥.

Sure "drury = Limit Raise" is a shorthand of describing what the bid means, but I don't know anyone who plays it that way. You are limited by being a passed hand, and you show your values (much) lower than on any typical sequence opposite a 1st-hand opener - hence there is no reason to have use the same requirements as for a non-passed hand limit raise.

Some take this very far, having a range of 7+-11 for their drury; while that's rare, everybody uses drury on bad 10 counts with 3-card support that wouldn't dream of making a limit raise in unpassed-hand bidding.

[aguahombre]

I guess that Cherdano is saying it is described as something other than it is, by people who use it helter skelter, and don't choose to disclose.

[cherdano]

I just meant to say: Either babalu was inaccurate in describing what 2♦ means, or he should change what 2♦ means.

[babalu1997]

cherdano, on 2011-April-04, 23:51, said:

I just meant to say: Either babalu was inaccurate in describing what 2♦ means, or he should change what 2♦ means.

well there was no pm, the guy was a pickup p.
He told me in table talk that 2♣was 3 card drury and 2♦4 card drury
so, with his hand i would have answered drury

my question was really, if one plays drury, what is the meaning of 1♥-2♥ different when the auctions starts in fst or 2nd seat.

there was no agreemment on 1♥-2♥being a constructive raise, but now that i think about it, i believe the flag was canadian and they play constructive raises often.

[kenberg]

Some thoughts:

After a third hand opening, I am not fond of having to start with 1NT if I have a major suit fit and minimal values. If partner has opened light he might well pass. This is OK on some hands but not on others. Even if his third hand light opening is on four cards, it should be a pretty good four cards (else opening on four cards is a pretty bad idea when partner expects five) so I like to raise immediately if I have support.


I like playing that 2C is the only Drury bid. For one thing, sometimes it is nice to be able to bid a non-forcing 2D over partner's third hand major opening. But the real reason shows up with these "just barely Drury" hands. After the third hand heart opening I can bid 2C. If partner rebids 2H we are done. If he rebids 2D, showing a full opening, I can rebid 2H with a light Drury hand (such as this) and 3H (or something other than 2H) with a full Drury hand. If I have to Drury here by bidding 2D to show my fourth heart, it cuts down on the room to sort out how good the Drury bid is. Probably with the hand in question I would still Drury, but I would much prefer to be able to bid 2C as Drury and await information from partner about his strength or lack of strength.

[blackshoe]

An expert friend of mine taught me a Drury variant which he picked up, I believe, in Toronto:

2♣ shows 4 card support and some 6-12 points.
...2♦ shows a full opener.
.......2M shows a simple raise (~6-9 points)
...2M shows a sub-minimum opener
etc.
2♦ shows 3 card support and about 10-12 points
...2M shows a sub-minimum
...2NT shows a full opener

The description is incomplete, but the point is that this structure gives you max room when you have 4 card support.

[barmar]

Most players I know play that Drury shows a limit raise. This allows opener to jump directly to game if he has a minimum acceptance, rather than going through artificial bids that can be doubled for the lead or to suggest sacrifices. If Drury also includes constructive raises, opener has to be more careful, and probably has to bid 2♦ with all full openers to allow responder to clarify. In this case, I think you need agreements about responder's rebids.

BTW, notice that if you swap the minors in West's hand, 4♥ isn't as good a contract. It requires 2-2 trumps or getting South to lead away from ♣Kxx at some point.

[han]

After a 1st or second seat, my 1H - 2H shows at least 7 points or a quite attractive 6. after a third or fourth seat 1H opening my 1H - 2H denies a 9-count or a very attractive 8-count. I would certainly use drury with this hand.