[icearif]

MP - None vul
♠Q83
♥K53
♦K862
♣K83

Pass - 2♦ - X - Pass (weak 2 in ♦)
? What do you bid?

[JLOGIC]

2N

[whereagles]

Pass.

I got no suit, a defensive hand and am ok with any lead. Just perfect for passing.

[Rossoneri]

2N. Pass seems like a good way to concede a bottom.

[wyman]

Blech. 2N is lebensohl in my system. I'm tempted to punt 3N, but I fear I'll be punishing pard for trying to get us in the auction. It may well be the right spot, but this is MP, and if he's got a 10 count or something, we could be in a heap of trouble.

Assuming the field bids 2N natural or plays 2D or 2Dx:
Pass and pray only wins when we're +300 or more vs 8 tricks exactly in NT or when we're +100 vs a failing NT contract
3N wins when we can take 9+ tricks in NT, or when we're down 1 versus a making diamond contract (unlikely I'd think), or when pard would have raised a natural 2N to 3N anyway it's a wash.

I think passing is hoping for too much, so I'll bid 3N and not be happy about it. Pard knows I only have 11, and he'll know I'm either 5332 or 4333 (but with 5332 with stopper(s) I'm more likely to have passed). He'll make the right call. Tough problem.

[mtvesuvius]

I'd bid 3N as well, passing is too much of a position with no quick tricks, lousy trump spots, and no ruffing values. 3N should have a reasonable shot to make, especially since a holding like ♦Jx in dummy might be very valuable.

[aguahombre]

Yeh, 3N. But pard doesn't double really-really light here, so it feels right. Am not lamenting that 2NT is weak for clubs or invitational for a major and not available as a natural bid.

[pooltuna]

 JLOGIC, on 2011-March-09, 05:08, said:

2N

Darn he's living up to his moniker

[ggwhiz]

2nt is lebensohl for me too but I can use it, followed by 3nt to show doubt but this is the wrong hand for that.

I'm passing cause I like my pards defence better than my declarer play.

Should probably shoot 3nt at imps but early in a match might pass to serve notice on aggressive opponents. Either way, I'm not surprised if it's wrong.

[mtvesuvius]

 ggwhiz, on 2011-March-09, 13:42, said:

2nt is lebensohl for me too but I can use it, followed by 3nt to show doubt but this is the wrong hand for that.

I'm passing cause I like my pards defence better than my declarer play.

Should probably shoot 3nt at imps but early in a match might pass to serve notice on aggressive opponents.

Especially when they make it or escape for down 1 when you were cold for 3N. It'll tell them something, just probably not what you want.

[ggwhiz]

 mtvesuvius, on 2011-March-09, 13:45, said:

Especially when they make it or escape for down 1 when you were cold for 3N. It'll tell them something, just probably not what you want.

If we are cold for 3nt, they might escape for down 1 but down 2 is more likely and I'll eat the loss. They aren't making it. Our style is to strain to overcall a suit of instead of double and if pard has the big hand with a long suit, yes, I lose.

[Vampyr]

 wyman, on 2011-March-09, 10:10, said:

Assuming the field bids 2N natural or plays 2D or 2Dx:

I am more worried about the field not having 2♦ natural and weak than about their having a natural 2NT available.

I don't love my prospects in 3NT opposite partner's "normal" 4=4=1=4 14-count, but I agree with those who think that passing is taking too much of a gamble. Unlucky that I'm not playing this hand against a Benji or Multi pair...

[bluecalm]

If 2NT is natural I consider it's obvious to bid it.
If it's not I think it's closer. I prefer to bid 3NT than pass on first sight.

[the hog]

 Rossoneri, on 2011-March-09, 09:04, said:

2N. Pass seems like a good way to concede a bottom.

As 90% of the world plays 2NT as Lebensohl, what are you going to do when your partner bids the obligatory 3C?
Realistically you can pass or bid 3NT here. I guess to bid 3NT.

[shevek]

2NT should be natural here.
Suggest Lebenstensions less usefull after 2♦.
We only play Leb after their 2M opening.

[bluecalm]

Quote

We only play Leb after their 2M opening.

Yeah, makes sense. Probably the same should go for multi ?

[JLOGIC]

Lol @ 90 % of the world playing lebensohl here. I did not know anyone plays lebensohl over a weak 2D, shows what I know I guess!

It doesn't even seem like that bad of an agreement if we were an unpassed hand since I guess it helps with slam hands sometimes, but it seems completely awful as a passed hand.

[Vampyr]

 JLOGIC, on 2011-March-09, 18:58, said:

Lol @ 90 % of the world playing lebensohl here. I did not know anyone plays lebensohl over a weak 2D, shows what I know I guess!

I do think that 90% of the world plays it, and I suspect that your bridge crowd is in the more exalted 10%...

I think that most people have not really thought about it. They agree to play Lebensohl over weak 2's, discuss a couple of auctions, and then are done.

[bluecalm]

Quote

I think that most people have not really thought about it. They agree to play Lebensohl over weak 2's, discuss a couple of auctions, and then are done.

Yeah... Where I am from nobody plays weak 2d but people play lebensohl against multi. Not only that, it's quite fashionable to play:

2D - dbl - 2H(pass/correct) 2NT as lebensohl :-)

[the hog]

 JLOGIC, on 2011-March-09, 18:58, said:

Lol @ 90 % of the world playing lebensohl here. I did not know anyone plays lebensohl over a weak 2D, shows what I know I guess!

It doesn't even seem like that bad of an agreement if we were an unpassed hand since I guess it helps with slam hands sometimes, but it seems completely awful as a passed hand.

Well perhaps you can tell the difference between

xx
Axx
xxx
AQxxx

and

xx
xxx
xxx
xxxxx

as both hands passed at their first turn - I can't.

As for Leb over a weak 2D perhaps you should look at this thread?
http://www.bridgebas...sess-the-blame/