[jillybean]

After partner makes a game forcing response to an opening bid we will always make a 'courtesy cue' (A,K,S,V) below game if we can.
I think that is fairly standard.

1♠:4♣
4♦

My question is, should we be showing extra's if partner is passed hand?

P:1♠
4♣:?

[mtvesuvius]

In splinter auctions, there are no such things as courtesy cuebids. If you have a bad hand facing that shortness, you sign off. If you want to make a slam try, you cuebid.

Therefore yes, 4♦ here would show extras... Enough to be interested in slam facing a passed hand splinter.

[nigel_k]

Obviously you need enough that slam will be good opposite some possible hands.

So you can't always cue bid opposite a passed hand, and if your splinters are limited (e.g. responding 2NT with a strong splinter) then you can't always cue bid opposite an unpassed hand either.

Even if the splinter is unlimited, I would sign off with a poorly fitting minimum. There's room for partner to find out about a control in an unbid suit if that's all he needs.

[jillybean]

Bad example for the first auction sorry.

The hands for the second auction were

xxxx, AQxx, Axxx, x

AKQJTx, Jx, x, KQxx

P:1♠
4♣:4♠

If we cue ♦'s we will get to 6 but it is on the ♥ finesse.

[kenrexford]

First of all, not getting to this slam is reasonable. As you mentioned, the heart finesse must work. But, if you also have the club Ace over the King-Queen, and if spades split 3-0, you still might not make even if the heart finesse works. Thus, this seems like an anti-percentage slam.

The question, though, was whether you always "courtesy cue" after a game-forcing call by partner. No. Obviously not. If partner, for instance, were to make a game-forcing call, and then started cuebidding, you obviously would not cue if a known hole exists. Also, you would not cue if partner shows non-serious interest and you lack interest.

A courtesy cue only occurs when partner is unlimited.

[Lurpoa]

jillybean, on 2011-March-08, 11:08, said:

After partner makes a game forcing response to an opening bid we will always make a 'courtesy cue' (A,K,S,V) below game if we can.
I think that is fairly standard.

1♠:4♣
4♦

My question is, should we be showing extra's if partner is passed hand?

P:1♠
4♣:?

Even on a passed hand, P's use of a splinter shows extra values (beyond game).
Opener should respect that, and every excuse should be good to start a cue bidding sequenece.
Only on a minimum hand, with useless values in the splinter suit,opener should bid 4 of his major.

[mtvesuvius]

Lurpoa, on 2011-March-08, 23:48, said:

Even on a passed hand, P's use of a splinter shows extra values (beyond game).
Opener should respect that, and every excuse should be good to start a cue bidding sequenece.
Only on a minimum hand, with useless values in the splinter suit,opener should bid 4 of his major.

OK that makes no sense, a passed hand is a passed hand. You don't pass 14 counts waiting for partner to open the suit you have, do you?

Therefore a passed hand is limited, and a splinter can only be so good.

[han]

jillybean, on 2011-March-08, 11:08, said:

After partner makes a game forcing response to an opening bid we will always make a 'courtesy cue' (A,K,S,V) below game if we can.
I think that is fairly standard.

1♠:4♣
4♦

No it's not standard, and it is terrible to courtesy cue after a splinter. The message "I have a decent hand" is much more important than the message "I have a diamond control".

Quote

My question is, should we be showing extra's if partner is passed hand?

P:1♠
4♣:?

If partner is a passed hand and we know that it is absolutely impossible that we have a slam, should we cue? If you think about I believe that you can figure out the answer.

[the hog]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-March-09, 01:12, said:

OK that makes no sense, a passed hand is a passed hand. You don't pass 14 counts waiting for partner to open the suit you have, do you?

Therefore a passed hand is limited, and a splinter can only be so good.

I certainly agree with this comment. I would not be fussed missing out on the slam, by the way.

[jillybean]

Watching a JEC match this evening got me thinking about courtesay cue-bidding again.
These WC players obviously had other rules regarding C-Cue's

---

The cue bidding here appeared to pin-point the values for the opponents allowing them to set it -2
while at the other table after an auction of 1N 2H 2S 3N 4S , 4S= or maybe it was just unlucky play at
both tables which contributed to the outcome.

[mgoetze]

jillybean, on 2012-December-31, 21:07, said:

Watching a JEC match this evening got me thinking about courtesay cue-bidding again.
These WC players obviously had other rules regarding C-Cue's

Well, not everyone who posts in the Water Cooler is good at bridge. South's 4♥ was just stupid.

[ArtK78]

mgoetze, on 2013-January-02, 09:55, said:

Well, not everyone who posts in the Water Cooler is good at bridge. South's 4♥ was just stupid.

I believe that "WC" means World Class in this instance, not Water Cooler or anything else.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the 4C bid was ..., the North hand is not extraordinary,
South was content to bid game, North should simply bid 4S.

If at all, a cue by North should show a max., usually 4 cards,
unless those are already denied, by the simple transfer, all
points working, a source of tricks, I may come up with a
5332 shape some would upgrade.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[dustinst22]

mgoetze, on 2013-January-02, 09:55, said:

Well, not everyone who posts in the Water Cooler is good at bridge. South's 4♥ was just stupid.

Edit: Never mind, just answered my own question

[mgoetze]

P_Marlowe, on 2013-January-02, 12:21, said:

the 4C bid was ..., the North hand is not extraordinary,

North has a fit, a maximum and 7 controls. Maybe not extraordinary, but certainly far above average.