[wyman]

---

South deals. Opps silent, except East will double any heart cue for the lead. Mostly interested in what your BWS auction would be, but if you have appropriate gadgets/systems that somehow come in handy on this deal, feel free to show them off .

[Fluffy]

I think everyone should be starting with a diamond splinter, then south is left with a guess, he needs 3 working cards from partner for slam, if your splinters are limited south can sing off since a club honnor wasted is most likelly, but if splinters can have up to 15 HCP he will have troube at the 5 level.

[cherdano]

I have a gadget over 1♠ openings: a 4♦ bid shows a singleton or void in diamonds, at least 4 spades, and about 10-12 hcp. I play another gadget where a 4♠ rebid over 4♦ by opener shows a hand that is not interested in slam. Playing these gadgets I would bid 1♠ - 4♦ - 4♠ - P.

[wyman]

cherdano, on 2011-February-24, 10:04, said:

I have a gadget over 1♠ openings: a 4♦ bid shows a singleton or void in diamonds, at least 4 spades, and about 10-12 hcp. I play another gadget where a 4♠ rebid over 4♦ by opener shows a hand that is not interested in slam. Playing these gadgets I would bid 1♠ - 4♦ - 4♠ - P.

♥

Ok, ok. I'm overthinking things. Sometimes you don't bid slams that are odds-on. Sorry, moving right along. Nothing to see here. Good thing they haven't implemented voting down OP's

[aguahombre]

It's that damn fifth spade in responder's hand which makes things really work. Despite the sarcasm of Cherdano, I agree with him that slam would not happen for us. Can't win em all. In order to get there I would have to really upgrade the responding hand to "beyond" splinter and bid around the diamonds. Fluffy's first option for a splinter (limited} is our agreement.

[gnasher]

I'd use both of Cherdano's gadgets, unfortunately. I don't think you can hope to bid it after a splinter that shows about this sort of strength, because North heeds to have everything he actually has - five trumps, ♥A rather than ♣A, and four hearts rather than three.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2011-February-24, 11:51

[WGF_Flame]

Slam is not so bad here, but not so great either, so I think being in slam is ok, but being out of it is also fine.

[gnasher]

Suppose that we play this line: Cash two diamonds and play a third round. If LHO shows out, crossruff; otherwise play for diamonds 4-3 and trumps 2-1. That's already well over 60%, and that figure doesn't take into account that we may make with less friendly distributions (we could ruff the third diamond with ♠10, and still survive some of the time that diamonds are 5=2, or we might be OK with diamonds 4-3 and spades 3-0).

[JLOGIC]

Agree with 1S-4D-4S. The fifth trump is so huge here.

[mtvesuvius]

I'd duplicate Cherdano's auction.

[phil_20686]

slam is a pipe dream when partner splinters opposite your only side suit values. Bidding other than 4!s would be ridiculous.

[WGF_Flame]

gnasher, on 2011-February-24, 12:56, said:

Suppose that we play this line: Cash two diamonds and play a third round. If LHO shows out, crossruff; otherwise play for diamonds 4-3 and trumps 2-1. That's already well over 60%, and that figure doesn't take into account that we may make with less friendly distributions (we could ruff the third diamond with ♠10, and still survive some of the time that diamonds are 5=2, or we might be OK with diamonds 4-3 and spades 3-0).

First I agree with you that its a good slam.
Yet the cross ruff is not as simple as it might seem.
West is discarding clubs on each diamond you ruff and this might lead to some problems.

[kenrexford]

My initial inclination is that a diamond splinter is flawed (for me) for two reasons. First, the side controls are not pure (I tend to avoid a splinter with a side Queen). Second, the fifth trump is too strong of a holding for a splinter, generally.

So, with a pure club suit, I could opt a 2♣ response (GF with real clubs or spade support). Opener bids 2♦, and now Responder sets trumps with a 2♠ call. Opener cues 3♦ to show two of the top three spades (he bypassed 2NT which would deny two of the top three in my methods), deny a club honor of Queen or higher (but could have shortness), and promise two of the top three diamonds.

This is not encouraging to Responder, but it also does not shut out slam hopes. So, he continues with a 3♥ cuebid (first or second round control).

Opener now cuebids 4♣, a non-serious cue denying the third top spade (obviously, but 3♠ would have shown that). Having denied one of the top three club honors earlier, this shows shortness.

Responder knows that the spades are solid and that Opener has at most one club loser. Because Opener did not bid 4♣ immediately after Responder's 2♠ call (which would show THREE of the top FOUR honors in diamonds, a stiff club, no heart control, and two of the top three spades), Opener is now known contextually to have:

1. no diamond Jack, and/or
2. a void in clubs, and/or
3. a heart control

A void in clubs would mean that the spade slam will require a non-heart lead OR partner having the diamond Ace OR the diamond Ace being to the left. A stiff in clubs would mean that partner needs the Ace-King in diamonds. If Opener has a stiff in clubs and no diamond Ace, slam might make (the Ace of diamonds could be well-placed), but he won't accept. Any other time, Opener will make another move toward slam himself (repeating clubs to show the void but probably not Ace-King in diamonds, repeating diamonds to show the Ace-King, or bidding 5♥ to show a heart control).

So, Responder bypasses 4♦ (he does not have the third diamond honor) to bid 4♥, a Last Train call.

Opener, with both the diamond Ace-King and the club void, will most assuredly accept.

So, it seems to me that a 2/1 sequence actually works better, at least using the methods I like.

[mike777]

maybe a bergen 2nt auction?


1s=2nt
3h=3s
3nt=4nt
5s==5nt
6d=6s

2nt=strong s raise
3h=void somewhere
3s= where?
3nt= c void
6d=kd
--


But I think a splinter auction to 4s is ok also.

[tolvyrj]

We would have avoided Cherdanos faith just for systemic reasons . South opens 1♠and now north has to bid 2Nt ( ♠ support and limit raise or better) we play void spilinters. Now souths systemic bid is 4♣ promising void. Norths 4♦ promises cue which south will guess to be a singleton . After that souths breaking attempt 4♠( denying ♥control ) is wasted energy. Prd blasts the blackwood cannon and we end up in 6♠.

[Phil]

cherdano, on 2011-February-24, 10:04, said:

I have a gadget over 1♠ openings: a 4♦ bid shows a singleton or void in diamonds, at least 4 spades, and about 10-12 hcp. I play another gadget where a 4♠ rebid over 4♦ by opener shows a hand that is not interested in slam. Playing these gadgets I would bid 1♠ - 4♦ - 4♠ - P.

Poor Dorothy Hayden Truscott. She should have patented her invention.

Agree with 1♠ - 4♦ - 4♠. For those that suggest LTTC over 4♦ as a route to 6, would you bid any differently with a 5=4=1=3?

[Zelandakh]

tolvyrj, on 2011-March-04, 12:49, said:

We would have avoided Cherdanos faith just for systemic reasons . South opens 1♠and now north has to bid 2Nt ( ♠ support and limit raise or better) we play void spilinters. Now souths systemic bid is 4♣ promising void. Norths 4♦ promises cue which south will guess to be a singleton . After that souths breaking attempt 4♠( denying ♥control ) is wasted energy. Prd blasts the blackwood cannon and we end up in 6♠.

Such a shame when South's hand is actually KQ852/T63/KQJ86/- though.

[gnasher]

tolvyrj, on 2011-March-04, 12:49, said:

We would have avoided Cherdanos faith just for systemic reasons . South opens 1♠and now north has to bid 2Nt ( ♠ support and limit raise or better) we play void spilinters. Now souths systemic bid is 4♣ promising void. Norths 4♦ promises cue which south will guess to be a singleton . After that souths breaking attempt 4♠( denying ♥control ) is wasted energy. Prd blasts the blackwood cannon and we end up in 6♠.

As I understand it, you're saying that North should drive to slam after the 4♣ bid.

Is KQJxx xxxx AQxx - an opening bid in your partnership? That needs the diamond finesse and no trump lead. What about KQJxx Qxxx Axxx (slam probably needs hearts 3-3 with the king onside), or KQJxx Jxxx AJxx (almost no play)?

In your auction after 4♣-4♦, I think South should do more than bid 4♠. He has prime cards and good shape - 5350 is worth more than 5440 because the long diamond is usually a trick - and 4♦ presumably shows suitability. I'd bid 5♦ with South's hand.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

wyman, on 2011-February-24, 09:32, said:

---

South deals. Opps silent, except East will double any heart cue for the lead.....
.....If you have appropriate gadgets/systems that somehow come in handy on this deal, feel free to show them off .

Modified Swedish-2NT where
1M - ??

Splinter Raises
3D! = ♣ shortness
3oM! = ♦ shortness
3NT! = oM shortness

1S - 3H! - ( DBL)
p - RDBL = ♥A
3S - 4S = no ♣ Ctrl or ♥ K
4NT - 5S ( 2 + ♠Q or extra length )
6S

[dake50]

Another why isn't a splinter well-defined?
Can it have A-5th support and not going to 6 anyway?
(ie. showing this along the way to slam in case you can grand)
Can it have 5x support (no A,K,Q)?
Can it have 2xA,3XA,1xA,noA?
Can it have 5-suit TTxxx?
Can it have 7 controls, 6,5,4,3,2?
Can it have void and 5th? With nxA? With 5-suit: TTxxx?
The simple point is an undefined bid takes space and this slam is missed.