[kenberg]

I think that the differences between Athens and Paris exceed the differences between San Francisco and New York, but probably the real issue is that, at least to a large extent, Athenians think of themselves as Greek and Parisians think of themselves as French, while people in New York, San Francisco and a mining town in West Virginia all think of themselves as Americans.
As mentioned, it's a challenge and it has gotten tough. I won't be throwing spitballs, good luck.

[Gerben42]

Quote

Only a united Europe is big enough to stay significant.

Why would being significant be a goal? Many insignificant countries are doing VERY well. 1.3 billion Chinese and 8 million Swiss. Yet I would prefer to be part of the 8 million.

[hotShot]

Gerben42, on 2011-January-26, 12:11, said:

Why would being significant be a goal? Many insignificant countries are doing VERY well. 1.3 billion Chinese and 8 million Swiss. Yet I would prefer to be part of the 8 million.

The Swiss managed to be one the the most significant banking places in the world.

A lot of the less significant countries in the world are in Africa, so losing significance is often related with economic loss and with the loss of political influence in the world.

[Gerben42]

hotShot, on 2011-January-26, 14:23, said:

The Swiss managed to be one the the most significant banking places in the world.

A lot of the less significant countries in the world are in Africa, so losing significance is often related with economic loss and with the loss of political influence in the world.

You have your logic backward. Although poor countries mostly do not have large political influence, not having political influence doesn't mean poverty. Before they got awarded the World Cup, how many people knew Qatar even existed? I mean people other than Blatter

The biggest secrets to prosperity are political stability and good health. Natural resources are worth nothing if the political system is broken. With its fertile lands and natural resources, if led properly, Zimbabwe could have been Africa's richest country by now. Instead, it is one of the poorest.

[hotShot]

I guess you are aware of he fact that Chinas economy is growing with more than 10% a year.
Estimate how man years will it take for Chinas 1.3 billion people to produce a sufficient number of engeniers so that they no longer need to buy technology from other countries?
Won't that make them to a big contender for e.g. Germany?
I guess you also know that Chinas industries is using it's profits to buy the rights for exploiting Africa's natural resources and that China is about to stop it's exports of rare minerals to other countries.
So do you really think that e.g. a country like Germany is capable to stand its ground on its own?

Perhaps after thinking about that you can accept the possibility that after losing costumers, exports would drop and difficulties accessing natural resources it will led to further loss in competition, leading to a significant drop in the peoples economic situation.

To me it seems better to combine the efforts of about 501 million Europeans (Number from Januar 2010) to improve the chances to stay "significant".

[y66]

Frau Nein says yes to more integration

Quote

In a remarkable about-face, Mrs. Merkel now wants more economic integration in the euro zone, including regular meetings of its leaders. That sounds similar to a French plan for a prototype economic government for Europe — something once considered so radical that Germany killed it.

... In Berlin, Mrs. Merkel’s adviser, Uwe Corsepius, briefed European Union ambassadors on the ideas this week and a draft document, prepared by one German ministry and circulating in Brussels, identified six priorities.

These are: abolition of wage indexation systems, agreement on mutual recognition of education qualifications, creation of a common base for assessing corporate tax, adjustment of the pension systems, establishment of a national crisis management regime for banks and new legal measures to force countries to commit to tough fiscal policies through a “debt alert mechanism.”

Under the plan, countries will be measured against economic indicators, their progress verified by the European Commission.

Though both Mrs. Merkel and Mr. Sarkozy have been fiercely critical of the commission and want to limit its powers, neither wants to create a new, parallel structure.

In fact much — though not all — of Germany’s plan was being pushed by the European Commission in its annual growth survey, or in its plans to strengthen the European Union’s rule book with six economic governance proposals.

But that Berlin wants to make these ideas its own gives them vital momentum.

The challenge now is for officials to make a series of interlocking reforms into a coherent package by March.

[Aberlour10]

Smaller EU countries like Austria and Belgium are not amused about this plan, non euro-zone members Poland and Hungary are afraid, they will be put to a backwater in european decision making process. So the negotations about details in March can end with compromise that completely diluting this idea >>> business as usual in Brussels.

[Aberlour10]

We have not an extra thread about the future of the USD, so a few words here.
It seems, China wants to destroy the domination of the greenback at the trading markets and plans to handle the entire own foreign trading in Yuan. This and tries by a lot of countries to finish the exclusively role of USD in oil trading may bring some troubles or?

[y66]

Who will pay for restructuring of Greek debt?


Fabrizio Bensch/Reuters



NYT story by Alan Cowell and Judy Dempsey.

[y66]

How do you say "fast fix this" in German?

[Aberlour10]

y66, on 2011-June-18, 07:46, said:

<br />How do you say "fast fix this" in German?

"Bringe es schnell in Ordnung"

But you cannot fix anything throwing billions of Euro in a bottomless pits, and this is what happens at the moment.

[jdeegan]

Don't cry for me Argentina. Currency consolidation is a balance between the ease of lending in a common currency and the benefits of letting currency devaluations help you out when things go bad. I had lunch the other day with an fat Washington economist named Larry, which one I can't remember. He said that he had had dinner with an important German (like the chancellor or the head of the German central bank) who related his (and his wife's) extreme discomfort at the events just following the end of WWII. That experience forged, for him, the theoretical basis for a common Franco-German currency to minimize the potential for future conflict. Who else cabbages on to the Euro remains to be seen.

[Aberlour10]

In 1989 the french president F. Mitterand gave up his resistence to German Unification processing in this moment in Helmut Kohls goverment approved forcing of the European Monetary Union. That was the price.

[y66]

Aberlour10, on 2011-June-20, 15:31, said:

"Bringe es schnell in Ordnung"

But you cannot fix anything throwing billions of Euro in a bottomless pits, and this is what happens at the moment.

21 poll voters do not agree apparently. I am not so optimistic.

[mgoetze]

y66, on 2011-June-21, 18:08, said:

21 poll voters do not agree apparently. I am not so optimistic.

You do realise this thread is over a year old?

[y66]

Yes. "Fast fix this" was a lame attempt at humor.

[helene_t]

kenberg, on 2011-January-26, 09:38, said:

I think that the differences between Athens and Paris exceed the differences between San Francisco and New York, but probably the real issue is that, at least to a large extent, Athenians think of themselves as Greek and Parisians think of themselves as French, while people in New York, San Francisco and a mining town in West Virginia all think of themselves as Americans.

Yeah, this is crucial. Most New Yorkers would care about California going bankrupt. I think that most non-Greek Europeans (but OK I am largely speaking for myself) don't care if Greece goes bankrupt except for the implications it would have for our local economy. Greeks have never paid taxes to the government that provides services for me. I have never voted for politicians that have any say on what happens in Greece, nor have Greeks voted for politicians that have any influence on my life. I have no close friends or relatives that have ever lived in Greece. Theoretically I could be a very empathic person who cared about the welfare of the Greeks, but that is just like I could care about Zimbabwe or North Korea. The fact that Greece is an EU member while Zimbabwe and North Korea are not means nothing.

[hotShot]

helene_t, on 2011-June-23, 05:14, said:

Yeah, this is crucial. Most New Yorkers would care about California going bankrupt. I think that most non-Greek Europeans (but OK I am largely speaking for myself) don't care if Greece goes bankrupt except for the implications it would have for our local economy. Greeks have never paid taxes to the government that provides services for me. I have never voted for politicians that have any say on what happens in Greece, nor have Greeks voted for politicians that have any influence on my life. I have no close friends or relatives that have ever lived in Greece. Theoretically I could be a very empathic person who cared about the welfare of the Greeks, but that is just like I could care about Zimbabwe or North Korea. The fact that Greece is an EU member while Zimbabwe and North Korea are not means nothing.

While I basically agree with you, I suggest you check your private pension plans, because your insurance or bank could hold (or held and sold them with a big loss) a significant amount of Greek loans.
A lot of people who don't care about the Greek now, will be surprised when they retire how big the impact to their pensions is....

[Aberlour10]

hotShot, on 2011-June-23, 05:35, said:

While I basically agree with you,  I suggest you check your private pension plans, because your insurance or bank could hold (or held and sold them with a big loss) a significant amount of Greek loans. A lot of people who don't care about the Greek now, will be surprised when they retire how big the impact to their pensions is....

From one side you are right, nobody is able to forsee how big would be this financial earthquake and this is the reason for what the european politicans do at the moment.

From the other these banks and insurances (you talk about) cashed and cash enormous intersts for these greek loans without any risk. This risk is averted only by the european tax payer. Is it still market economy? A. Merkel is willing to contribute banks (holders of the greek loans) compulsorily on the cost of this crisis, But Sarkozy said : Non mon ami! Why? Look at the diagram posted by y66 above and you will know.

[mgoetze]

helene_t, on 2011-June-23, 05:14, said:

I think that most non-Greek Europeans (but OK I am largely speaking for myself) don't care if Greece goes bankrupt

I care! They owe me money.