Stayman with balanced hands
#1
Posted 2009-January-30, 13:08
#2
Posted 2009-January-30, 13:10
As far as showing it systematically, if you insist then rather than use the 3♦ bid I would prefer to simply eliminate the invitation and have stayman followed by a raise to 3 be choice of games (maybe can also double as some kind of slam try?) You would get a bit more mileage than 4333 since you could also use it on 4432 with strong doubletons.
#3
Posted 2009-January-30, 13:12
I think the 3♦ call can be used for something more useful that showing this in about any system. It would really depend on the rest of your structure, but I can think of:
Natural INV
5/5 majors INV
5/5 minors GF
Splinter
Etc.
#4
Posted 2009-January-30, 13:13
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#5
Posted 2009-January-30, 14:54
I haven't ever heard of that 3♦ bid, but I have heart of 3♥/♠ showing 4 cards in the other major and game strenght.
#6
Posted 2009-January-30, 15:47
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#7
Posted 2009-January-30, 15:48
over this partner can ask for a 4-card major or show a 5-card major as well as do some other things. the whole system works pretty well, imo. and you generally don't give away a lot of info.
#8
Posted 2009-January-30, 15:58
Personally I think people bid stayman way too often, I would never bid it with 4333 and there are many 4432 and 5332 hands that I think you should be bidding 1N 3N on as well. Most people think I take this concept too far.
Also awm has often given his view on why stayman is better at MP than imps, I think that his view often underestimates the amount of time you can gain a trick by concealing declarers hand more, making their lead harder (people lead majors more often on that auction esp ones like xxx at MP), etc etc. These times when you gain 1 trick are some of the best gains of not bidding stayman at MP.
Also I think that in general you can much more frequently steal a trick in 3N than 4M for an overtrick since there is more room to maneuver, and these gains are not generally considered. There is just an inherent advantage to playing 3N.
I do agree with awm's general point that people who bid stayman much more often at imps than mp are silly though. I would say I bid stayman the same amount regardless of the form of scoring.
Oh also I should add that if I have slam interest then I will almost always bid stayman even with 4333.
#9
Posted 2009-January-30, 16:42
#10
Posted 2009-January-30, 17:56
But one day in a day pairs event I decided to blast 3NT on almost all of the hands (with discrepancies of course) and it worked out so well especially with the tempo of the lead into my major suit or sometimes our 4-4M fit that was breaking 4-1 lol. Easily converted there.
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#11
Posted 2009-January-30, 21:23
♠Qxx
♥9xx
♦AQxx
♣7xx
Wrong, I know but I was on automatic as usual. My partner held:
♠Kxx
♥AKTxx
♦Kx
♣AKx
Opening leader held 5 clubs to the QJT so I expected 3NT to make 9 tricks only. Some people apparently (I'll have to check the scores again) scored 10 tricks in NT, not abnormal, but I thought 4♥ making would be quite a good score, actually turning out to be 6 out of 11...
That was an exception, I know, but I just thought I'll share it.
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
My YouTube Channel
#12
Posted 2009-January-31, 02:38
#13
Posted 2009-January-31, 06:09
Yeah, it's the correct line but few seemed to make it...
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
My YouTube Channel
#14
Posted 2009-January-31, 06:54
By winning the club you are gambling a 4-1♥ splint (unfavourable) for an average instead of gambling a club continuation for a top
#15
Posted 2009-January-31, 13:37
Hanoi5, on Jan 31 2009, 07:09 AM, said:
Yeah, it's the correct line but few seemed to make it...
LOL
#16
Posted 2009-January-31, 15:53
(1) They may double 2C for a lead;
(2) The defense can benefit from information about declarer's hand;
(3) Opener might be 4333 himself;
(4) Even with a fit, the hand may play better in notrump, such as when the suit breaks badly.
Against this, of course, is that if you have a fit, opener will most often be 4432, with a doubleton opposite three, which will often be a significant weakness at notrump and an advantage in the suit. But the odds are about 2-to-1 against your having a fit.
Compare to an auction like 1C-1H . Opener, with 3433 shape, should of course raise; there's no artificial call to be doubled and no information worth concealing. Bottom line: you want to play in the suit if you know you have a fit, but with 4333 opposite a balanced hand it isn't worth looking for the fit.
A significant point is how likely opener is to have a five card major. 3NT will rarely score well when there's a nine card major suit fit.
#17
Posted 2009-February-01, 10:25
#18
Posted 2009-February-01, 16:22
lexlogan, on Jan 31 2009, 09:53 PM, said:
I have found that 5-3-3-2 opposite 4-3-3-3 very often takes the same 9 or 10 tricks in NT as it does in the major. Admittedly, the field is very likely in the major on a nine card fit, so bidding 3NT is playing top or bottom--but I seem to get more tops than bottoms on this.
#19
Posted 2009-February-01, 22:42
mikestar, on Feb 1 2009, 10:22 PM, said:
lexlogan, on Jan 31 2009, 09:53 PM, said:
I have found that 5-3-3-2 opposite 4-3-3-3 very often takes the same 9 or 10 tricks in NT as it does in the major. Admittedly, the field is very likely in the major on a nine card fit, so bidding 3NT is playing top or bottom--but I seem to get more tops than bottoms on this.
I would suspect you're inferring from a small sample. But a BridgeBrowser search would be interesting.
#20
Posted 2009-February-02, 08:42
lexlogan, on Jan 31 2009, 09:53 PM, said:
(1) They may double 2C for a lead;
(2) The defense can benefit from information about declarer's hand;
(3) Opener might be 4333 himself;
(4) Even with a fit, the hand may play better in notrump, such as when the suit breaks badly.
Against this, of course, is that if you have a fit, opener will most often be 4432, with a doubleton opposite three, which will often be a significant weakness at notrump and an advantage in the suit. But the odds are about 2-to-1 against your having a fit.
Compare to an auction like 1C-1H . Opener, with 3433 shape, should of course raise; there's no artificial call to be doubled and no information worth concealing. Bottom line: you want to play in the suit if you know you have a fit, but with 4333 opposite a balanced hand it isn't worth looking for the fit.
A significant point is how likely opener is to have a five card major. 3NT will rarely score well when there's a nine card major suit fit.
Thanks very much - this is very helpful.