[strong 1c]

I'd like to see what, if any, consensus is out there on a few questions about unusual 2NT. I hope some will respond with short or long answers. Thank you

1) Can you tell me your agreements as to hand strength when you make an unusual 2NT bid ? e.g (5-8) or 15+
2) (How) does your agreement vary by favorable/non favorable vulnerability?
3) Aside from 5-5 distribution, can you tell me what I might expect about the quality of both suits, if anything ?
4) If your distribution was something like: KQJ9x 98742 Qxx x, would you be more apt to overcall or do an unusual 2NT ?

[mikeh]

strong 1c, on 2026-June-07, 12:36, said:

I'd like to see what, if any, consensus is out there on a few questions about unusual 2NT. I hope some will respond with short or long answers. Thank you

1) Can you tell me your agreements as to hand strength when you make an unusual 2NT bid ? e.g (5-8) or 15+
2) (How) does your agreement vary by favorable/non favorable vulnerability?
3) Aside from 5-5 distribution, can you tell me what I might expect about the quality of both suits, if anything ?
4) If your distribution was something like: KQJ9x 98742 Qxx x, would you be more apt to overcall or do an unusual 2NT ?

On point 4, I doubt you’d find many willing to make a bid that shows 5=5 or better in the minors when hold g not only 5=5 in the majors but also 14 cards. That would indeed be an ‘unusual’ notrump.

[strong 1c]

mikeh, on 2026-June-07, 13:26, said:

On point 4, I doubt you’d find many willing to make a bid that shows 5=5 or better in the minors when hold g not only 5=5 in the majors but also 14 cards. That would indeed be an ‘unusual’ notrump.

ah, yes too many cards...I didn't mean the distribution to be specifically majors, but two 5-5's where one was strong and the other weak...I'm thinking the 2NT as the two lower unbid, not the necessarily the minors, if my semantics is wrong

[pescetom]

You asked in I/A, so I feel entitled to reply even if not expert and I currently have no partners willing to discuss such things.
FWIW I play it very wide ranging at favourable, it's a description of distribution.
It's rare that one suit is rubbish, never both.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 / #2 we play it as 5+ - 4+ continious range, but red vs. green it will start with opening strength, 5+-5+
the 5/4 shapes will occur green, and in 3rd not being red. (red vs. red ... hands may exist)

In short shape rules.

#3 / #4 If you introduce 2-suits, they should be roughly equal, i.e. you dont mind playing in either, if
p with equal length picks your weaker one.
=> the difference in suit quality in #4 is a warning sign, given that it it is 55 it may only be seen
as yellow, if one allowes 5/4

The 2NT enables the opponent side to show non-min hands, by allowing to X the 2NT bid, and the 3 level is already
pretty high.

In short, I have toned the freq. down making 2-suited overcalls, and just because one can make the bid, does not mean
one has to use it.

To a certain degree the disruptive effect is not huge (the counter method unusal vs. unusal allowes them to judge the high),
depending the position is should send the message, that you dont mind a sac., outside values are another warning signal.

[mike777]

 strong 1c, on 2026-June-07, 12:36, said:

I'd like to see what, if any, consensus is out there on a few questions about unusual 2NT. I hope some will respond with short or long answers. Thank you

1) Can you tell me your agreements as to hand strength when you make an unusual 2NT bid ? e.g (5-8) or 15+
2) (How) does your agreement vary by favorable/non favorable vulnerability?
3) Aside from 5-5 distribution, can you tell me what I might expect about the quality of both suits, if anything ?
4) If your distribution was something like: KQJ9x 98742 Qxx x, would you be more apt to overcall or do an unusual 2NT ?

Fwiw
My goals with two suited hands
1. My priority is to be preemptive/obstructive at the cost of being constructive when NV.
2. My priority is to be constructive at the cost of being obstructive when Vul.
_-+±±----------

So you have a two suited overcall, what is YOUR priority on the particular deal?

[Shugart23]

I think I’m primarily trying to get my arms around how low is low in terms of HCP by the person showing two suits. Assuming favorable vulnerability. And partner is not a passed hand, is your bid showing 0-10 hcp or is their a floor? If red, does a range of 8-10 make sense. ( I assume you are not 16 plus but trying to be more obstructive).

[P_Marlowe]

Shugart23, on 2026-June-08, 13:21, said:

I think I’m primarily trying to get my arms around how low is low in terms of HCP by the person showing two suits. Assuming favorable vulnerability. And partner is not a passed hand, is your bid showing 0-10 hcp or is their a floor? If red, does a range of 8-10 make sense. ( I assume you are not 16 plus but trying to be more obstructive).

If I have a 7600 shape I am going to make the call with 0 HCP, obv. this is a freak.
But if you req. 6+ HCP, besides two empty suits, do you think single King / QJ Doubleton would qualify?

In other words, with more shape the suit quality req. goes down, less shape, the suit quality goes up.
If the suit quality goes up, than the HCP goes up as well.

At a min, you may req. that the combined suit quality value matches the level you are forced to play + an offset (whatever the value of the offset), a 2NT
call implies the 3 level / 9 tricks. With 55 and 2 top honors, you would get to 12, this would mean you have an offset -3.
Qxxxx Qxxxx xx x would be ok for most players, at least Green.

Depending on Vul you could modify the Offset.

I just made this rule up, but you could derive a similar rule.
If you req., that p preempts according to the law, it should be ok. ... most of the time.

https://csbnews.org/...by-ron-klinger/

[Shugart23]

Thanks. I like that suit quality article

[mycroft]

I am getting less enamoured of 2NT (if minors) preemptive. It just isn't. And showing 5=5 or better is great - for declarer, when they're trying to map your partner's hand. If I bid, I have enough values that declaring one trick higher than the opponents' fit will still be okay.

I played against this guy when he was still playing for a living and this came up, and he pointed me to his explanation. I'm not suggesting you play the system (although the one pair I did play it in we really liked it), but read the thoughts on when to bid. You can (and maybe should) disagree, but only after reading and considering, IMHO.

[P_Marlowe]

Shugart23, on 2026-June-08, 16:32, said:

Thanks. I like that suit quality article

I have yet to read it, but I knew the rule from a Klinger book, the rule works quite well for overcalls.

I just used big brother G to find a reference.

[Shugart23]

We play ghestem so I’m thinking comments regarding 2Nt will apply generally to the 3c bid. The cue bid somewhat the same. Our method for (1m)-2m goes:
2M to play
2Nt relay to 3c and getting ready to invite to 4M
3M-game force
Fast and slow 3Nt show 1 and two stops respectively

And (1M)-2M very similar although we lose the ability to invite most of the time