[jillybean]

I'm going to start playing 14-16 nt.
What do I need to look out for? Our 1 level openings are now 11-13, 2nt rebid 17-19, downgrading 17 to 1nt is strictly forbidden.

[mike777]

Feel free to upgrade and down grade 17-19 a bit too large

You can play Mexican 2D as 18-19 and jump 2nt as 17

Or

Jump 2nt as 17+ to 19

Then upgrade or downgrade the rest of 17

Or NV 1nt is 14-16, vul is 15-17


Experiment

[bluenikki]

jillybean, on 2026-February-08, 20:40, said:

I'm going to start playing 14-16 nt.
What do I need to look out for? Our 1 level openings are now 11-13, 2nt rebid 17-19, downgrading 17 to 1nt is strictly forbidden.

2NT rebid with 17 may be inconsistent with light responses. Stone Age Acolytes used that rebid, but I doubt they kept a record of their results. And I don't remember what they responded with.

[mike777]

Fwiw even now 17 bal. Hands are a bit of a problem for me, I don't have a perfect solution

[jillybean]

mike777, on 2026-February-08, 20:48, said:

Feel free to upgrade and down grade 17-19 a bit too large

You can play Mexican 2D as 18-19 and jump 2nt as 17

Or

Jump 2nt as 17+ to 19

Then upgrade or downgrade the rest of 17

Or NV 1nt is 14-16, vul is 15-17


Experiment

Is it legal to include bad 17's in our 14-16 nt?
I can't give up Multi

Or NV 1nt is 14-16, vul is 15-17. this may work

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2026-February-08, 22:25, said:

Is it legal to include bad 17's in our 14-16 nt?
I can't give up Multi

Or NV 1nt is 14-16, vul is 15-17. this may work

You can't play multi in ACBL world except in a tiny few events

Playing 15-17 vul and always in 4th seat solves the issue pretty well, you just end up with 14-16 much less..

[DavidKok]

As you know I love the 14-16 NT. However, it needs a bit of support from the rest of the system. These are the pain points I'd watch out for:

• Having 1X-1Y; 2NT as a three point range is bad. The auction is already uncomfortable in standard where the response can be light. It's significantly more frequent, and a bigger problem when it comes up, once you start including 17-counts. As a solution I mostly play systems where I can show the 17-19 NT at the 1-level, e.g. Strong Club, Dutch Doubleton or T-Walsh (there's more but these are the systems I play most).
  
• Opening balanced 11's puts quite a bit of strain on the system. It requires partner to reconsider before blasting to game with average 12-counts. I've struggled with this especially with the 5M332 openers - nominally stronger than other balanced hands in the 11-13 range, but because it requires responder to commit immediately (bid 1NT with 12, or 2/1 instead) this can be rough. You'll also lose on inviting with 11 now sometimes (e.g. playing a F1NT), as 2NT in 11-opposite-11 is not always comfortable.
  
• I would not switch the ranges up by seating and vulnerability like this. I know plenty people who do, but a single point is not enough of a payoff for the trouble, in my opinion. Instead I'd focus on the subtleties of one NT ladder, and when you're familiar with that to evaluate the pros and cons of making it variable instead.

[paulg]

If you are opening 11 counts, then you should consider playing 15-17 in third and fourth seats as you will practically never have an invite opposite 14-16.

[DavidKok]

I would (and do) blast game with 10 opposite 14-16. I don't think playing 15-17 in third or fourth would be an improvement - there are many other ways this range gains.

[mike777]

 DavidKok, on 2026-February-09, 03:12, said:

I would (and do) blast game with 10 opposite 14-16. I don't think playing 15-17 in third or fourth would be an improvement - there are many other ways this range gains.

Agree, I play it in all seats and vulnerabilities.

Responder:
Pass with flat 8-9
2344 and decent 9 invite

Pass with flat

[jillybean]

Thanks
I rarely open 11 counts in first and second seat, my partners "never" do.

I'll chat with partner and see what she wants to do with 17 counts.

[mike777]

[quote name='jillybean' timestamp='1770649520' post='1087256']
Thanks
I rarely open 11 counts in first and second seat, my partners "never" do.


One of the main reasons to play 14-16

[mw64ahw]

jillybean, on 2026-February-09, 09:05, said:

Thanks
I rarely open 11 counts in first and second seat, my partners "never" do.

I'll chat with partner and see what she wants to do with 17 counts.

Isn't this why people play
1♣ - 1R
1N 17-19

[DavidKok]

I play 14-16 NT and currently pass most balanced 11-counts. I think opening most balanced 11's while playing 15-17 NT is a poor idea, but the other way around is very defensible.

Opening 11's is also fine, but beware that there are costs as well as benefits. Responder has to be somewhat more cautious if you do.

[mikeh]

mw64ahw, on 2026-February-09, 09:50, said:

Isn't this why people play
1♣ - 1R
1N 17-19

Exactly right


We open virtually all 11 counts since doing so fits our notrump ladder (10-13 nt 1st through 3rd and 14-16 otherwise). We used to play (before transfers over 1C) a jump rebid of 2N with 17-19. While, as with most imperfect approaches, it ‘usually’ worked, we definitely got too high on occasion. Being able to bid 1C 1R 1N to show 17-19 is a huge improvement.

Since 1D is unbalanced, we don’t need 1D 1M 2N for a big balanced hand.

As for the OP issue, imo, opening flat 11 counts makes a lot of sense within a 14-16 1N framework but not 15-17. The rebid range of 11-14 is too larger imo.

David is of course correct that responder needs to be aware of opener’s range when balanced, but that is easy after a little practice. Responder needs to be a point (or the playing strength equivalent of a point) stronger for both invitational and forcing sequences.

Also, you will undoubtedly get into trouble more frequently than when playing sounder openings. In my experience this reality is more than offset by opening more often than you used to…yes, you get more bad boards but on balance you get even more good ones.

[mike777]

Still technically that 1NT rebid is 17+ to 19

So 17 still an issue, that I didn't have a good solution for

[a_user]

jillybean, on 2026-February-08, 20:40, said:

I'm going to start playing 14-16 nt.
What do I need to look out for?

Forgetting your agreements.

[jillybean]

a_user, on 2026-February-09, 18:07, said:

Forgetting your agreements.

over 1nt?

[steve2005]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-09, 00:52, said:

As you know I love the 14-16 NT. However, it needs a bit of support from the rest of the system. These are the pain points I'd watch out for:

• Having 1X-1Y; 2NT as a three point range is bad. The auction is already uncomfortable in standard where the response can be light. It's significantly more frequent, and a bigger problem when it comes up, once you start including 17-counts. As a solution I mostly play systems where I can show the 17-19 NT at the 1-level, e.g. Strong Club, Dutch Doubleton or T-Walsh (there's more but these are the systems I play most).

Play this sort of NT ladder in a Precision context.
With 2NT=19-20 , so 1NT rebid after 1♣ is 17-18

Can adjust 1NT in 3rd V/4th adjusting 2N accordingly

[mw64ahw]

steve2005, on 2026-February-09, 20:26, said:

Play this sort of NT ladder in a Precision context.
With 2NT=19-20 , so 1NT rebid after 1♣ is 17-18

Can adjust 1NT in 3rd V/4th adjusting 2N accordingly

I struggle with 2N 19-20 in an Acol context so perhaps a Kokish relay would be better over a strong ♣