[mikl_plkcc]

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I can't bid Jacoby because I don't have 4-card support, so I bid 1♠, my longest suit.

I can't bid 3♥ in the second round because in the robot bidding system, it is non-forcing and invitational, so I bid new minor forcing. (I play this as game forcing with my regular partner, so I won't have a problem here.)

Then I bid 3♥ again and it PASSED BELOW GAME!!! And the description showed that I had only 11-14 points!!!!! Doesn't 3♥ above being invitational imply that a new minor forcing is game forcing?!

I was looking for slam and looking for a way to set 5-3 trump fit, and got excited after a double fit was found, but I HAD NO WAY TO FORCE!!!!!

Why does the robot bidding system provides me NO WAY TO FORCE with 3-card support?

[pescetom]

I don't like bidding 1/1 with fit and such a strong hand.
Does GiB not allow you to bid 2♣ GF and then raise to 3♥ inviting slam?
I seem to remember it doing just that with 4 card clubs as you have here, not sure if it would also allow less (as I would).

I don't much like NMF either, but the description did not say forcing to game so why assume it?
And why not accept gratefully the chance it offered to bid to slam in spades?

[mw64ahw]

Doesn't GIB play SJSs?

[mikl_plkcc]

How do I force in ♠? Is a 3♠ bid here also forcing?

[mikl_plkcc]

 mw64ahw, on 2025-May-27, 12:59, said:

Doesn't GIB play SJSs?

It plays Soloway jump shift. I have a side suit so I can't use it.

 pescetom, on 2025-May-27, 12:42, said:

I don't like bidding 1/1 with fit and such a strong hand.
Does GiB not allow you to bid 2♣ GF and then raise to 3♥ inviting slam?
I seem to remember it doing just that with 4 card clubs as you have here, not sure if it would also allow less (as I would).

I don't much like NMF either, but the description did not say forcing to game so why assume it?
And why not accept gratefully the chance it offered to bid to slam in spades?

My ♠ suit is longer than my ♣. If I bid 3♣ in my second round is it forcing or invitational?

[mw64ahw]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-May-27, 13:00, said:

It plays Soloway jump shift. I have a side suit so I can't use it

The side suit is irrelevant when you have 3♥. Just bid 2♠

[hrothgar]

Here's one point that you might have missed

Opener rebid 1NT
The bot is almost certainly sitting on a 3=5=3-2 hand hand with ~12 - 14 HCP.

Assume that you immediately bid Blackwood.
If the bot shows two Aces, you sure as hell don't want to be in the grand.

If partner shows three Aces, then (3 x 4) + the queen of Hearts = 14.

If partner has so much as an extra Jack they would have opened 1N
Even without the extra Jack, they might have upgraded and opened 1N

With this hand, do you actually need to make a forcing bid at the three level?
(and if you do, you can always bid 3!D. I think 2N might be forcing as well)

[hrothgar]

mw64ahw, on 2025-May-27, 13:45, said:

The side suit is irrelevant when you have 3♥. Just bid 2♠

an immediate 2♠ promises 4 card Heart support (presuming that you ever want to show this hand type)

[mw64ahw]

hrothgar, on 2025-May-27, 13:48, said:

an immediate 2♠ promises 4 card Heart support (presuming that you ever want to show this hand type)

I don't think so. Even if it does a GF is created

[hrothgar]

mw64ahw, on 2025-May-27, 14:11, said:

I don't think so.

That's nice, however, you might consider looking at the actual definition of a Soloway JS

[smerriman]

hrothgar, on 2025-May-27, 14:36, said:

That's nice, however, you might consider looking at the actual definition of a Soloway JS

Like this one, for example?

Quote

4 - Slam-try-or-better values (16+ points) with a good 5+-card suit AND support for opener's suit (4+-card support for a minor, 3+ cards for a major).

Having said that, GIB doesn't play the relay version which makes it much poorer, and does describe it as 4+ hearts if you raise later. Still, definitely a worthwhile option, if the others are worse in GIB's system.

In the actual auction, yes, NMF doesn't have any way to force, why is why two-way is infinitely better. But you definitely had better ways of going about the bidding.

[hrothgar]

smerriman, on 2025-May-27, 15:09, said:

Like this one, for example?


Having said that, GIB doesn't play the relay version which makes it much poorer, and does describe it as 4+ hearts if you raise later. Still, definitely a worthwhile option, if the others are worse in GIB's system.

I stand corrected. It looks like Hxx is considered sufficient support in a major.

Supposedly the version that GIB used to use was based on https://web.archive....shifts-jan-2012

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I may have fallen in the same trap, I think 3H is forcing, it should, ... I dont like the discription 2+.
I also think, that 3S is forcing. I think setting the spade fit is not the worst.

As it is, you need to learn the system, that the bot plays, not how it is supposed to be played,
but yeah, some wrinkle in the bots play usually get me.

And I would not care too much, with regards that the 2NT bid showes 4+, the bot wont be able to know the diff.

With kind regards
Marlowe