[acer55]

XXXX
KX
AXXX
JX
1sp-2h-2sp-3h
3sp-p- ?
what would you bid with those 8 points?

[smerriman]

Pass. Partner has denied an invitational hand by not doubling.

[mw64ahw]

I wouldn't bid 2♠ in the first place

[smerriman]

mw64ahw, on 2025-April-29, 14:48, said:

I wouldn't bid 2♠ in the first place

Are you implying the OP's raise under the usual assumption of a "standard" system (3♠ weak, not mixed) is an error?

If so, I disagree. More likely, you have a way to show a mixed raise, which is fine, but important to clarify if the OP doesn't.

[jillybean]

May I, I added an extra diamond

---

Pass but wish I was playing 1♠ 2♥ 3♠ (4 crds weak) to get this off my chest 1st round

[apollo1201]

 acer55, on 2025-April-29, 13:23, said:

XXXX
KX
AXXX
JX
1sp-2h-2sp-3h
3sp-p- ?
what would you bid with those 8 points?

Calling director 1st because I only have 12 cards

Assuming I am given a nondescript small non-spade, to make the 2S bid more ok (I tried but could not find the 2 and a half spades card in the bidding box), the disciplined action is to pass.

Partner is just competing without asking further description from me. Either they have a 6th trump, or a weakish 2-suiter with concentrated values, or sometimes a sg in their suit.

I am super max, the DA is pure, the CJ might help and the HK looks well positioned. At IMPs I might have bid differently before but now it is too late.

[mike777]

2S is fine
Bit too strong for weak 3S raise but close
i don't have a way to show a mixed raise after 2H overcall.

Pass now. As others said double over 3H would be game try, , 3 Spades just competitive.

Excellent problem all around.

[mw64ahw]

smerriman, on 2025-April-29, 15:59, said:

Are you implying the OP's raise under the usual assumption of a "standard" system (3♠ weak, not mixed) is an error?

If so, I disagree. More likely, you have a way to show a mixed raise, which is fine, but important to clarify if the OP doesn't.

If I play with a pick-up partner so 'standard' is whatever it means to that person
2♠ is the limit of my strength
3♠ is Lott
Now you have X, 2N & 3♥ as potential forcing bids so I'll chose the one which is most likely to be understood best.

[acer55]

tx for the answers...i had 3 clubs to the jack so i didn t call the director for my 12 cards:)

Pard had 13 points with 5 spades.I think he had to pass 3h , 3sp is a free bid .
I felt guilty for my 2sp that i think it s an underbid , so on the 3sp bid , that i take it as a litle stronger than the 1sp ..i bid 4sp .As appolo said 2,5 sp as my first bid would be a bid more nice .For my max hand 4sp doesn t look bad to me after the 3sp free bid.

[harikannan]

Wondering what persuaded your partner to bid 3S directly with just five cards. Hand purity or something? Surely not a singleton heart. Interested in seeing his full hand. BTW, what scoring type please?

[mw64ahw]

acer55, on 2025-April-30, 03:11, said:

tx for the answers...i had 3 clubs to the jack so i didn t call the director for my 12 cards:)

Pard had 13 points with 5 spades.I think he had to pass 3h , 3sp is a free bid .
I felt guilty for my 2sp that i think it s an underbid , so on the 3sp bid , that i take it as a litle stronger than the 1sp ..i bid 4sp .As appolo said 2,5 sp as my first bid would be a bid more nice .For my max hand 4sp doesn t look bad to me after the 3sp free bid.

Is 4♠ makeable?
5♠ 13hcp and what else; shape makes a difference?
I would play X here and pass a 2♠ response min./bid over 3♥
K♥ may make and if partner has 4♦ you have extra value with 2x8+-card fits.

[P_Marlowe]

acer55, on 2025-April-30, 03:11, said:

tx for the answers...i had 3 clubs to the jack so i didn t call the director for my 12 cards:)

Pard had 13 points with 5 spades.I think he had to pass 3h , 3sp is a free bid .
<snip>

This is a mater of agreement, free bid is usually used in the context of meaning promises ad. strength,
but 3S could also mean, I dont want to let them play 3H, and I dont to hear anything from p.

As it is, you have a hand that is worth a mixed raise, below inv. strength, above single raise strength.
You should consider, to add the ability to show a mixed raise to your arsenal, ... as long as you consider
the partnership of the given hand, a serious partnership.

[acer55]

harikannan, on 2025-April-30, 03:49, said:

Wondering what persuaded your partner to bid 3S directly with just five cards. Hand purity or something? Surely not a singleton heart. Interested in seeing his full hand. BTW, what scoring type please?

imp..he had 5sp 4d 22 and 13 points..and his opinion is he can make the 3 sp bid becouse is not invayes to game..dbl is that kind of bid ..but for me it s a free bid and if ha has 6 cards in sp i saw a chance for making 4..down 1.he explains that he passes 3h with 11 points..with 13 he can bid 3sp..i don t think so.for me 13 points is a min hand.

[acer55]

mw64ahw, on 2025-April-30, 03:55, said:

Is 4♠ makeable?
5♠ 13hcp and what else; shape makes a difference?
I would play X here and pass a 2♠ response min./bid over 3♥
K♥ may make and if partner has 4♦ you have extra value with 2x8+-card fits.

,he has 5sp 4d 2 2 ...i don t think i may dbl 2h with sp fit..but maybe i m wrong..down 1

[P_Marlowe]

acer55, on 2025-April-30, 07:55, said:

imp..he had 5sp 4d 22 and 13 points..and his opinion is he can make the 3 sp bid becouse is not invayes to game..dbl is that kind of bid ..but for me it s a free bid and if ha has 6 cards in sp i saw a chance for making 4..down 1.he explains that he passes 3h with 11 points..with 13 he can bid 3sp..i don t think so.for me 13 points is a min hand.

5422, 13HCP, honor location ... is this min or more than min? Who knows.
Discuss or Watch and Remember, in the end this is personal style question, and in a serious partnership each partner needs to learn,
how the guy on other side views certain thinks, does he always believe the glass is half full, or is it always half empty, or in between.

[acer55]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-April-30, 04:46, said:

This is a mater of agreement, free bid is usually used in the context of meaning promises ad. strength,
but 3S could also mean, I dont want to let them play 3H, and I dont to hear anything from p.

As it is, you have a hand that is worth a mixed raise, below inv. strength, above single raise strength.
You should consider, to add the ability to show a mixed raise to your arsenal, ... as long as you consider
the partnership of the given hand, a serious partnership.

as i understand..a mixed raise is a jump cue bid at third level..after 1sp and opp overcall of 2h i can bid only a 3h cuebid that shows a 11 points hand ..so i don t have that jump cuebid .

[mw64ahw]

acer55, on 2025-April-30, 08:30, said:

as i understand..a mixed raise is a jump cue bid at third level..after 1sp and opp overcall of 2h i can bid only a 3h cuebid that shows a 11 points hand ..so i don t have that jump cuebid .

A mixed raise definition can vary as can the sequence which shows it.
My personal definition is a) less than 9chp, b) 8.5 modified losers or lower, c) 4+ card support. & d) mostly with some shape.
I use 1M-2M+1 to show limit+ raises with 4-card support.

[P_Marlowe]

acer55, on 2025-April-30, 08:30, said:

as i understand..a mixed raise is a jump cue bid at third level..after 1sp and opp overcall of 2h i can bid only a 3h cuebid that shows a 11 points hand ..so i don t have that jump cuebid .

There are various schemas out there, we employ a schema that uses xfer responses after opponents intervene.
But this is not the only variant.

[DavidKok]

In my experience many club players will always bid 3-over-3 with a fit. The losing scenario is when both contracts fail, but often one or both sides will sacrifice enough tricks on defence for this to be uncommon.

[mike777]

 acer55, on 2025-April-30, 08:30, said:

as i understand..a mixed raise is a jump cue bid at third level..after 1sp and opp overcall of 2h i can bid only a 3h cuebid that shows a 11 points hand ..so i don t have that jump cuebid .

A mixed raise is a fancy term for a pretty straightforward simple bid.

However is pretty controversial as Bergen followers, such as myself, think it is a darn good secret weapon. Others
Find it close to worthless. Certainly many players think Bergen raises are a joke,used by hapless bridge players.

Club players for the most part don't even know it.

Others debate it's definition

I think even many who claim to play Bergen raises, don't fully understand how Marty recommends you use it.


If nothing else, I believe non expert players would greatly benefit from a discussion on the power of five- four fits
Regardless of outside strength.