[podforgod]

With a fitting 4 card major and 4333 shape, is it best to bid no trumps or the major suit?

[shyams]

Richard Pavlicek had done a study (http://www.rpbridge.net/8j05.htm#1) wherein he concluded that

(Quote)The data strongly supports the accepted practice of not using Stayman with 4-3-3-3 shape, as 3 NT is superior regardless of opener’s shape (if balanced). (End quote)

[mycroft]

If you decided to Stayman, it's because you wanted to play in the 4-4 major fit.

So, if partner shows your 4-card major, you are playing there (if you have a way to bid 3NT "choice of games" later, maybe. I don't).

If you were going to ask this question (and, at least at matchpoints, it's a good question to ask), the time to do it is *before* giving away information to the opponents for no reason.

By and large, NT will play "same tricks" with balanced-opposite-4333 when you have an Ace or so over minimum for 3NT.

I will say (as a weak NTer in a world full of strong NTs) that the most variance I have is 1NT-AP and, when dummy comes down, knowing the rest of the room started 1m-1M; 2M. My feeling is that that variance is *not* in my favour (but I haven't kept track in general, never mind with 4M333).

But again, you answered that question when you bid 2♣. Now you should back your judgement that finding the major fit is a benefit on this hand.

[P_Marlowe]

Just because you are 4333, this does not mean opener is also 4333, he could hold a doubleton,
and the prob., that this is the case should be higher than 50%, assuming you have fit.

Now using a failed Stayman comes with a cost, they have information about openers shape,
i.e. this helps with defence.

In the end take your pick and keep a +- list, if you feel you are unhappy, change, but only
after a reasonable amount of data.
It is one of those topics, that generate endless debates, but the relevance is basically zero.

For whats it worth: I would use Stayman.

There is an exception: If you have plenty for game, bid 3NT, but this is not related to the
4333 shape, it is more related, if you have 30-32HCP, what is their source of tricks ... ruffs.

This means, if you do the list, add a column with regards to HCP.

[helene_t]

To add to Mycroft's answer, recall that in most variants of Stayman
1NT-2♣
2♥-3NT*
shows a 4-card spades, and opener will correct to 4♠ if holding 4-4 in the majors.

If the response had been 2♠, at least you don't have that risk, but still Stayman was pointless, you have just placed the contract in 3NT while giving opps information about opener's hand and the posibility to dopuble 2♣ for a club lead.

There is a variant of Stayman in which
1NT-2♣
2♦*
includes hands with a 4-card major that are suitable for a 3nt contract (this includes 4333 but possibly also some quarky 4432 with stuff in the doubleton). Then responder can ask again with 2♠, which they will do with a hand that wants to play in the major suit fit even opposite a 4333.

[thepossum]

I am reading the Pavlicek analysis
Am curious in MPs if analysis covers the likely number of tricks, rather than just making the contracts?
I had one today where I was feeling more comfortable in 3NT but was overbid into 4M

This one lol. Not quite fitting the theme but opening 1NT found 3NT+2 rather than 4S+1

---

[P_Marlowe]

Just one add. point: If responder asks, and opener knowes about a 44, he should show it,
except responder did offer it as a choice.
He should never override responders request, only because he has a 4333.