[harikannan]

The bidding:

P (P) 1D (P)
1NT (P) P (DBL*)
P (2S) DBL

* Take-out

What is the final double? Why? Thanks.

[DavidKok]

Please use the hand editor. Could you explain what the takeout double of 1NT means, especially in light of the failure to double 1♦ the previous round?

[harikannan]

Will learn and repost.

[mycroft]

Hand editor - that funny thing that looks like a Canadian Flag with a Spade on it. Like this:

---

Yeah, me too, what does a "takeout double" of 1NT that can't double 1♦ mean? Dealer has a minor - but doubler probably has diamonds too (else immediate double).

But I would go with my meta-agreement: if we've bid NT naturally, doubles with no specific meaning are intended as penalty. If I as the 1NT bidder really had a "balanced weak diamond raise", I might pull it, but otherwise, trust partner.

Note: I also have a meta-agreement: "without definition, 2 level doubles are for takeout, 3 are 'do something intelligent'." So, you know, which one takes priority :-)

[Huibertus]

DavidKok, on 2025-October-28, 09:13, said:

Please use the hand editor. Could you explain what the takeout double of 1NT means, especially in light of the failure to double 1♦ the previous round?

I used to play these as two way doubles.
Either, too weak for an immediate take out, but not willing to sell out to 1NT, something like an 8HCP 4414.
Or a clear penalty double that had a trap pass first round.
But NOTHING in between these two, not even close to somewhere in between, as partner HAS to be able to work out which type you had by looking at his own hand and listening to the bidding. So NO, not a take out WITH ♦, such a thing simply doesn't exist. ALSO, not a hand with ♦ that lacks full opening values. And finally NOT a hand that forgot to double first round.

It worked pretty decently in a sense we were more often able to penalize both with the original trap pass and the weakish take out with partner holding their suit and decent values. Also it lead to more won part score battles.

There was an occasion we failed to detect which type partner had, and that obviously led to disaster.

Sadly I no longer play with this partner.

[DavidKok]

I think the two-way double is a poor idea, but that's neither here nor there. I suspect the opponents were not playing such a double or they would have told us.

My guess is that EW have no agreements about this delayed double. I think it's sensible to play South's double as penalties on this auction. However, my meta-rule is that it's takeout. Note that partner has denied four spades, so we likely want to run if we only have two ourselves. Double, 2NT and 3♣ are all different degrees of flexibility here for me - likely a bit superfluous.

[P_Marlowe]

The first X was in the pass out seat.
If you req. shortage in openers seat, my take would be, 44 in majors and 3 diamonds / 2 clubs,
min opening values.
The second X, is cards / max. ... responder, the NT bidder, can convert with spade honors in a 3
card suit, or bid 3C / 3D.

The seq. sounds a lot like, that MP scoring is on.

[paulg]

My meta rule, as I've said before, is that doubles are penalty if we have tried to pass out a contract.

EW did not try to pass out a contract earlier, so West's double is takeout.

South tried, and expected, to pass out 1NT, so their double is penalty.

[harikannan]

Thanks mycroft for helping me out. I like paulg's rule and will adopt it.