[melbob]

Are there any games that I can kibitz? If so, how do I do it? It seems games usually don't allow kibitzers but sometimes I see that folks are kibitzing and I don't know how to join.

[docbean]

We should be able to kibbitz anyone we wish to watch

[mycroft]

How do I know "docbean" isn't a second account of "melbob", who happens to currently be my RHO?

What if we're practising, and discussing our defence to (say) Polish Club, and we don't want our next week's opponents to hear all the discussion?

What if partner's involved in a lawsuit, and the other side is going to say that "if you can play bridge, you're obviously able to work" - even if it's just pushing cards?

What if we're allowing kibitzer conversation to table, and therefore want to approve all the kibitzers who show up? Or what if we're pushing cards while having an informal C&E, or at least a "pooling of knowledge"?

What if the kibitzer's a streamer, and our opponents (or our teammates!) just happen to join the stream and start sniping?

What if it's your RL stalker kibitzing and polluting the kibitzer channel with comments about your play, your looks, or your politics? Or, as happened many years ago to an "online pro" (who really wasn't as good as he claimed he was to clients), one starts getting a kibitzer crowd showing up at the table every time explicitly to laugh at one's mistakes?

There are lots of reasons why one would want to limit kibitzers, that are actually valid. Most (at least non-serious) games allow them. Enjoy what you have.

[steve2005]

melbob, on 2023-June-21, 19:25, said:

Are there any games that I can kibitz? If so, how do I do it? It seems games usually don't allow kibitzers but sometimes I see that folks are kibitzing and I don't know how to join.

Click on the table you want, or the player you want t Kibitz
There should be a Join button if Kibitzing allowed. Click join button

[jillybean]

melbob, on 2023-June-21, 19:25, said:

Are there any games that I can kibitz? If so, how do I do it? It seems games usually don't allow kibitzers but sometimes I see that folks are kibitzing and I don't know how to join.

Yes, when you signon click Casual Under "Play or Watch Bridge"
and then Take me to an interesting table under "Help me find a game - Watch"

An upvote for mycroft's creative reply

[mycroft]

And thanks to Jillybean for actually answering the OP's question. Apologies for my tunnel vision.

[pescetom]

mycroft, on 2023-June-22, 09:14, said:

What if we're practising, and discussing our defence to (say) Polish Club, and we don't want our next week's opponents to hear all the discussion?

I'm an extremist on both enabling kibitzing (time-delay only) and Undo (never), but putting that aside I'm still surprised to hear you say this.
Your defence to Polish Club (and inferences from discussion and actual situation that go beyond written description) are not due to next week's opponents?

[mycroft]

pescetom, on 2023-June-22, 16:03, said:

I'm an extremist on both enabling kibitzing (time-delay only) and Undo (never), but putting that aside I'm still surprised to hear you say this.
Your defence to Polish Club (and inferences from discussion and actual situation that go beyond written description) are not due to next week's opponents?

Absolutely they are. At the table, I will be happy to provide it and explain in detail.

But the strategy on when we will use it, or what exact strengths, or ... they don't need that in real time.

And if not me, there are definitely those who are quite certain that practise sessions and full system notes are something others pay for. And if it's good enough for Rodwell, who am I to say that, whether I would do it or not, others should not be allowed to make that choice?

[pescetom]

I sometimes wonder what bridge would be like *without* any obligation to disclose agreements. Goodbye alerts, explanations, system cards, system limitations and much of the regulations and litigation that stifle the game. Of course it would bring new problems such as hiding/spying training sessions, sale of information about other players' agreements, increased difficulty of identifying collusive cheating, u.s.w.

I'd like to try it, but we just don't have enough players with the necessary skills and vision to rise to the challenge with playable but unexpected agreements. Curious to know if anyone has experimented with this and what emerged.

[jillybean]

We play this way now in our games, no alerts, explanations, system cards.

[mycroft]

We've joked about the "secret bridge olympics" in the past - maybe check on that for people's thoughts about how it would work.

My concern would be the "Poisson table" system variations - "our carding is upside-down if the last digit of the board is in this row of the Poisson table. We change which row every game," (and of course in this construction we don't have to tell you).

I've threatened to bring a fudge die (with 2 each of +, 0, -) to a midnight game, and roll it before every hand. Now, in that game, we'd make it clear what that meant, and of course there would be full disclosure of any Alertable calls. If none of that were there, what are you going to do when we open 1NT (never mind when partner responds 2♣)? Sure, if it's a 10+ board match, you might be able to work out what the different rolls mean. But then we can switch them up - say by rotating the result n times, n = board # mod 3, or just "top digit of board")

But we're getting way off topic. Not that thread drift is new here.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2023-June-23, 06:51, said:

We play this way now in our games, no alerts, explanations, system cards.

We've all experienced that, in my case it was the reason I moved to a 'serious' bridge club (which turned out to be not much more serious, but did at least allow me to become TD and improve things a bit).
But the reason that this void of explanation renders playing meaningless (or at best a degenerate form of whist) is that the game insists on disclosure in the first place. My point (well addressed by mycroft, and apologies for the second thread drift) was to reflect on whether it might be playable all the same without this principle.