[Cyberyeti]

Question mainly for Mike, if the borderline between your NT ranges was between 21 and 22, which would you treat it as ? my inclination would be 22-23 rather than 20-21 as it makes game opposite many 4s and some smaller hands

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-January-31, 13:15, said:

Question mainly for Mike, if the borderline between your NT ranges was between 21 and 22, which would you treat it as ? my inclination would be 22-23 rather than 20-21 as it makes game opposite many 4s and some smaller hands

Generally speaking, 4441 hands don’t play as well as 4432 and nowhere nearly as well as 5431. So, while I love Aces and like Kings, and all the honours are supporting other honours, this isn’t a hand I’m inclined to upgrade.

I upgrade out of or into notrump ranges frequently, but this one is not worth 2C then 2N, showing 22-23 for me.

My 2N is a very good 19 to an above average 21, but not what I’d call a very good 21. This isn’t, imo, a ‘very good’ 21.

Edit: unless playing something like 2D showing a balanced 18-20, I don’t understand using a 2N range of 21-22

You want, imo, a ‘ladder’ approach to notrump, and you need to be aware of the differences between 1N (as an opening ir rebid) and 2N

Over 1N, responder has room to ask whether opener is min or max…min being 15-mediocre 16, max being decent 16-17. If you play ‘invite light, accept strong’ you’ll have your micrometer set a little differently on the 16 counts.

Over 2N, either opening or jump rebid, responder has no way to ask min-max, in terms of committing to or avoiding game

Therefore it is logical to use a three point range for 1N openings or rebid and a two point range for the 2N bids.

If one plays 15-17, and 21-22, the 2N jump rebid shows 18-20, a three point range. I strongly believe this to be a poor approach.

Btw, in my two partnerships, we avoid much of this.

Especially in the one in which we open 1C with all balanced opening hands out of range for notrump…including 3352 shape. We play transfers over 1C so

Vulnerable

1C 1R 1M, accepting the transfer, shows 2-3 card support and a minimum balanced or semi balanced hand, so if balanced then 11-13

1N is 14-16

1C 1R 1N is 17-19

All of these have 3 point ranges, which is acceptable because responder can invite

2N is 19+ - 21, with great 21’s upgraded to 2C.

Thus we have the 3 point ranges at the 1 level and 2 level bids are two point ranges.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2023-January-31, 11:20, said:

Give him 4 spades 842x and I'd expect him to bid 1♠ but I will check


Edit: yes, I will get a 1♠ response with 6 points a any 4 spades

Without the Jack, he would have only 4HCP.
The point is, if he understands, that he should answer with submin values to a 1 level
opening, you know, you dont need to open 2C as much as otherwise.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2023-January-31, 13:25, said:

Generally speaking, 4441 hands don’t play as well as 4432 and nowhere nearly as well as 5431. So, while I love Aces and like Kings, and all the honours are supporting other honours, this isn’t a hand I’m inclined to upgrade.

It plays badly in no trumps, but can be better in 4M and you have both majors.

♥Kxxx and out or ♠QJxx and out or ♥109xx and a black Q could easily be enough for game

This is why I thought it was interesting.

We actually play good 19- non stellar 21 for 2N and since a good majority of these are 19 or 20, I would upgrade this one, partner just passes way too many hands where game makes.

Plus partner raises to 3N with xx, Kx, xxx, Qxxxxx and we go off with 6♣ laydown. This is part of why I actually open 1♣